WV Farmer could use a little help...

[Bugman T]

Hi, everyone. I am trying to figure out how to wire/connect a reversing switch for a timer controlled 12v DC motor with an NC556 IC timer. Here's how it began- My Mom (80 yo) said she'd like fresh eggs and they were inconvenient for her to obtain. So, I bought a bunch of good egg layers and she's happy. Me? Not so much. I have to go out each morning to open the coop and let them out. This winter has been so bad, I'm setting up auto feeders (simple timers) and trying to construct an auto coop door that opens at dawn and closes after sunset. Simple, right? Not for me. I'm a farmer (cows & chickens), carpenter and a pest control operator- not an electronics "guy". Can anyone provide me with a simple "a to b to c"instructions on how to reverse my door motor. I've read and read but just don't understand how to connect the wires to the proper terminals. Thank-you in advance for your help. You see, out here in the country, things are a little tough and my neither my friends nor I have $200+ to buy an auto coop door. (I should add this- "You Electronics Folks" blow my mind! I am amazed at what you do and what you know. I'm reading and attempting to teach myself but could surely use some help)

 

[Inquisitive]

Hi Bugman

Welcome to the forum.

Would you happen to have a wiring diagram or make and model of the motor.

 

[Misterbenn]

(I should add this- "You Electronics Folks" blow my mind! I am amazed at what you do and what you know

flattery will get you far!

What's your location, just so we know what kind of components you might have easily available.
It sounds like you've already got your door motor, if so could you give us any details you have on it. Photos of the motor will also be useful.

 

[Bugman T]

Good Morning, Inquisitive and Thanks. I tried to keep this project simple and failed... Here are my components: An Amico 12v 16A digital timer (from Amazon); a 12V DC reversible motor (For this prototype I'm using a semi-auto car power antenna (Harada MQ1)- Red Lead for extend & Green for retract); and, Magnetic reed switches at each limit to cut power to the motor. I thought it would be a simple task until I realized I need to reverse the polarity of the motor. I have investigated using two (2) DPDT relays or 555/556 Flip Flop Switch for reversing the polarity. I really like the idea of the 556 as it will decrease the cost for each coop door. I'll "dig" for any further information you request.

 

[Bugman T]

I'm in the middle of nothing- Central West Virginia. Everything and everywhere is 25+ miles...Thank heaven for UPS and, finally, the internet.

 

[large_ghostman]

What about a simple H bridge?

 

[Bugman T]

I've been reading about H Bridges. It's a bit more than I understand. I suppose I should add this- I can build anything. I can read and learn. I can solder, too. Us WV folks are creative. I have to feed before it rains and I'll get back soon. Thank-You. You all seem like good people- wish I could send some eggs!

 

[skimask87]

So, you're looking for a box that'll drive the antenna motor, in either direction, one direction at X time, the other direction at Y time, be able to change the times as needed as the year goes by, etc.?
Heck, go for broke, and string a cable from the door to the hour hand of a 24hour clock (not a normal 12hour one 'cause then it would open twice a day)
Closed at 5am, open a little bit at 6am, open all the way at noon, just about closed at 5pm, closed all the way at 6pm...

If it was me, I'd go all microcontroller on it. Keep it simple-ish and cheap-ish (again if it was me), re-purpose one of the unused Chipkit Uno32 and BasicI/O shields on the shelf to drive the motor, make it programmable, etc. Add a 12v power supply, put it in a box to keep it out of the weather...Done and done...

But there's gotta be an easier way that doesn't involve computers somehow...

 

[dr pepper]

Hi Bugman and welcome.
I take it from what you say you want something reasonably easy, just a bit a wiring, programming a microprocessot is probably out the window.
You can get timers desgined just for this purpose, dont know whether they are silly money or not, see if you can find one with google.
You could do this with 2 plug in timers, one to open and the other to close, and a start/stop circuit comprising a relay, you'd also need limit switches on the motor to stop it when the door is open and shut.
A car electric window winder motor sounds like a good place to start, or maybe a wiper motor.
​

 

[k7elp60]

Good Morning, Inquisitive and Thanks. I tried to keep this project simple and failed... Here are my components: An Amico 12v 16A digital timer (from Amazon); a 12V DC reversible motor (For this prototype I'm using a semi-auto car power antenna (Harada MQ1)- Red Lead for extend & Green for retract); and, Magnetic reed switches at each limit to cut power to the motor. I thought it would be a simple task until I realized I need to reverse the polarity of the motor. I have investigated using two (2) DPDT relays or 555/556 Flip Flop Switch for reversing the polarity. I really like the idea of the 556 as it will decrease the cost for each coop door. I'll "dig" for any further information you request.

You don't need all that. If you have a double pole double throw relay that is controlled by the timer you can reverse the motor.
I assume you are using the timer to turn on the motor to open the door. Then you want the timer to close the door. Is that right?
I think you can do the whole thing with two relays only one has to be a DPDT. I even have a new relay I will donate for the project.
Ned

 

[dr pepper]

I agree with Ned.
Instead of timer you could use a photocell light controller, little black box that turns a light on at night and off at dawn, they are cheap to buy.

 

[cowboybob]

Welcome, BugmanT!

Given the parts you have, this might suit your plans:

This is from an ETO thread titled "Chicken door control" (https://www.electro-tech-online.com/conversations/re-chicken-door-control.31837/)

 

[dr pepper]

Heres a cheap 12v 24 hour timer:

**broken link removed**

You can use relays pulled from a scrap car.

Set the timer to come on for only a minute, so if the limit switch for some reason doesnt stop the motor it doesnt just sit there consuming power.
If you know how much current your motor uses you could possibly use a self resetting circuit breaker to stop the motor at open and closed positions, when the motor stalls at open or closed position current goes up, the breaker trips and drops out the relay, then resets itself seconds later for next time.

A solar cell would probably be a good idea to keep your battery up.

 

[alec_t]

I can't find data for the stall-current draw of that Harada motor. Can you measure it (or measure the motor's resistance)? I suspect the current would require heavy-current relay contacts and limit switches. Are the reed switches up to it?

 

[Bugman T]

I have to begin with "Wow". I'll do my best...
skimask87- My first thought is this would be too easily pried open by a raccoon or other predator. Your second thought is simply not cost effective for this project but I liked it.
You put me on the learning curve...

dr pepper- Logical. Thank-you. I'll investigate this fully. You identified the timers I am using perfectly. Maybe I chose the wrong motor...three wires would have made this easier...

(Ned) k7elp60- Yes, Sir- on the money. Could you provide me with a simple diagram? Junk vehicles are everywhere. I thought I would need 2 dpdt relays. (showing my ignorance & hopefully, my curiosity to learn)

*One thing about chickens- some come home a little late. A photo cell might lock them out, especially "Alice" & "Big Chicken" (His pic is my avatar)- they sort of "meander"...

cowboybob- Indeed! Everything but the Photo Cell. I'll do some more reading. Where might I find the CW & CCW (clockwise & counter, right?) relays? Thanks.

dr pepper- Again, correct. I have a small PV with internal charge control to maintain my battery(ies). Self resetting circuit breaker? I'll be...I like it. Checked out and cost effective. So many ways to "skin a cat"...

alec_t- I think I'll just put the antenna on a shelf and get a different motor & happily accept suggestions for a replacement. I'm beginning to understand, albeit slowly. No, the reed switches can not handle the full current. I (wrongfully?) assumed that the reed switches could cut power to the contacts in the relay set up).

You have all been so helpful and, now I'll try to better explain the vision I have in my mind and why-

I spent yesterday afternoon considering your kind responses as I worked on the farm. I will try to do a better job describing what I believe I need.

I live in a very rural area that is full of wildlife including bears, mountain lions, bobcats, fishers, weasels, minks, raccoons, possums, skunks, owls, owls and snakes. All of these animals like chicken so it is very important that my coop is secure at night.

The mechanism I am imagining must be secure when the coop door is in the down (closed) position. I would like to use a simple timer to control the open & close intervals. A 12 volt motor that is geared to about 60rpm (flexible) and is reversible (easily found on the net?). The motor will be connected to a shaft (in this case, a length of "all thread") that will spin through a nut attached to the coop door (thin galvanized metal or aluminum) opening & closing the door as the motor turns. The rationale for this is, when the door is either up or down, it is secure and stable.
This is most important in the down (or closed) position as some of my predatory "neighbors" have the strength & ingenuity to lift an unsecured door and gain entry to the coop. The slow speed of the motor will also allow my birds safe entry at night without be "guillotined" by a quickly falling door. Once the door is down, the threaded shaft will prevent being pried open. The last components are simple magnetic limit switches to cut power to the motor at each end of door travel.

With that in mind, I'm back to the one "gizmo" that will pull this thing together- a switching mechanism to reverse the motor. I'm not set in stone- I can use my timers for other needs (lighting, feeders, etc..) and don't mind starting anew - crow isn't so bad with a little hot sauce.

My friends, I know animals and bugs. That's what I do. I came to this forum because I can find no "gizmo" folks in my local area. If I could find what I "need", already built, I'd already have this done. Another of life's "swing & miss"...

One sees only what one looks for. Thank-You all for new things to see.
I believe it's time to reflect and re-think. Hold tight for the day (I know you all have more important things to do and, since it's a rain day here, I'll have time to examine your thoughts in better detail).
Tim

 

[Bugman T]

You don't need all that. If you have a double pole double throw relay that is controlled by the timer you can reverse the motor.
I assume you are using the timer to turn on the motor to open the door. Then you want the timer to close the door. Is that right?
I think you can do the whole thing with two relays only one has to be a DPDT. I even have a new relay I will donate for the project.
Ned

I appreciate the donation but, it isn't necessary. I can easily obtain them here. Ned, could you provide me with a simple diagram as to the proper connections? I believe this would be the easy, cost effective means to accomplish my goals. Each time the relays are powered up by the timer, the contacts would switch position and reverse the polarity of the motor. Do I understand that correctly?

 

[skimask87]

I have to begin with "Wow". I'll do my best...
skimask87- My first thought is this would be too easily pried open by a raccoon or other predator. Your second thought is simply not cost effective for this project but I liked it.

Ya, the clock hour hand thing was just a kinda silly thought on my part.
The second thought...if you had the tools and knowledge (which is the expensive and time consuming part), a small MCU, a few MOSFETs, and some glue-y parts, that would be the kind of thing a guy that was into it could throw together with parts on hand from the bin. But again, gotta have the spendy stuff first to make the cheap stuff.

You put me on the learning curve...Tim

Sorry...I hate it when people do that to me

That diagram up in post #12 looks like just the thing you need. If the motor spins too fast, put a big ol' (meaning something that can handle some wattage, not a high resistance value) resistor inline with the motor to slow it down a bit...maybe just a simple 12v light bulb would do the trick.
And if you can't find reed switches to handle the current, then maybe just use a couple slabs of copper to do the job. Go all "Red Green show" on it (being from WV, you might not get the reference, but us from up north should get it).

 

[Bugman T]

Ya, the clock hour hand thing was just a kinda silly thought on my part.
The second thought...if you had the tools and knowledge (which is the expensive and time consuming part), a small MCU, a few MOSFETs, and some glue-y parts, that would be the kind of thing a guy that was into it could throw together with parts on hand from the bin. But again, gotta have the spendy stuff first to make the cheap stuff.


Sorry...I hate it when people do that to me

That diagram up in post #12 looks like just the thing you need. If the motor spins too fast, put a big ol' (meaning something that can handle some wattage, not a high resistance value) resistor inline with the motor to slow it down a bit...maybe just a simple 12v light bulb would do the trick.
And if you can't find reed switches to handle the current, then maybe just use a couple slabs of copper to do the job. Go all "Red Green show" on it (being from WV, you might not get the reference, but us from up north should get it).

Me, too, and I know who Red is (I'm a re-located Yank)- I agree with you and I'm looking into the cw & ccw relays and a geared 12v motor (about 60-100 rpm). Thanks. This experience renews my faith in people. My reason for keeping this "on the cheap" is for my less fortunate neighbors. I believe I can keep the cost under $40 and that's another reason I'm here- my weakness is my opportunity! skimask87, I'm called "Bugman" because I kill things. If you ever have an insect or rodent issue, I know what to do. I don't rely on nasty chemistry because there are always safe & effectice alternatives. I'd be happy to help.

 

[skimask87]

Those relays could be the 'standard' Bosch automotive relays.
**broken link removed**
I keep a dozen or so of these types on hand just for stuff sort of like this, or when I don't want to go all 'electronical' on things and just want to use a plain ol' switch. If you do get some, make sure you get the ones with 5 prongs (SPDT) and not 4 (SPST).

 

[dr pepper]

Bears, mountain lions raccoons, I've never seen any of those in real life, 25 miles from anywhere, sounds fantastic, I'm right now sat in a manufacturing plant full of animals.

A vehicle wiper motor turns at around 30 rpm (and also has the benefit of automatically positioning itself in the park position if you suss the connections, meaning you'll only need one of your limit switches), and they usually have a crank on the output that turns round continously, extending the arm and fastening this to the door via a piece of allthread and some hinge points made from nuts & bolts gives you a slow open/close and a secure hold closed as wiper motors are usually worm/wheel drive, you cannot turn the output shaft with the power off, reversing polarity reverses the direction as you probably allready know.

If I wasnt 5000 miles away I'd rig something up for you.