Converting frequency on US devices (60Hz - 50Hz)

[and.and]

Hi friends, hope this is the right session where to post this thread..
first of all hank you so much for the opportunity to write herei'm looking for a solution to make it work in Italy an USA air dryer.The air dryer is compatible with 120V/60hz 15amp, in Italy we use 230V 50HZ. I am looking to design my own frequency converter / circuit even rewinding he motor, Another option is to make it work with an inverter which should still provide the correct voltage & 60Hz frequency sinewave output.
as you can imagine i am looking any way possible to make this air dryer work in italy, i really need his particular model to work in Italy and implement it in my wife air saloon.
Thank you really in advance everybody that give me any support and even willing to work with me on his project
Best regards Andrea

 

[and.and]

The yellow encased unit I put in post #8, used for running industrial 110V power tools

ohhh yes sir, i saw it thank you for the suggestion , i took note of it
i saw its only a step down voltage transformer so still considering to find something that convert also the frequency, if it will be impossible to find anything that let also pass from 50hz to 60hz i consider it as it seems top quality one

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

so still considering to find something that convert also the frequency, if it will be impossible to find anything that let also pass from 50hz to 60hz i consider it as it seems top quality one

It's highly unlikely you will find a converter to do that (and it would be expensive - not that transformers are cheap, but it would be a LOT more expensive), and it's also highly unlikely there's any need to - the frequency is only an issue in certain very rare circumstances.

 

[and.and]

It's highly unlikely you will find a converter to do that (and it would be expensive - not that transformers are cheap, but it would be a LOT more expensive), and it's also highly unlikely there's any need to - the frequency is only an issue in certain very rare circumstances.

i understed very well your point sir, thank you for confidence.
i just want to avoid to be that guy that commit the mistake which i have been warned , would be very painfull after speding so much money peace Andrea

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

i understed very well your point sir, thank you for confidence.
i just want to avoid to be that guy that commit the mistake which i have been warned , would be very painfull after speding so much money peace Andrea

If you'd worried about it, I suggest you contact them and ask for an explanation of their claims?.

 

[and.and]

If you'd worried about it, I suggest you contact them and ask for an explanation of their claims?.

thank you for your interest sir, i already contacted them let me paste here for you what they did reply :

"Our device just won't work outside of a native 120V/60Hz outlet unfortunately! If you try to use it in something like a 230V/50Hz outlet with a step-down converter, there are two things that may happen. The first is that it might display a "P" to indicate an internal power failure and it won't turn on. The second is that it may start up momentarily and the motor will spin so fast that it will burn out and become unusable. Our team has tried many solutions to try to get the device working with different voltages and frequencies, but we haven't found anything yet. Since we're only certified for use within the US and Canada, we're also restricted to providing support (returns/warranty) to those regions. We've had people try to take the device outside of the US/Canada and use it in Europe only to have the device not work or to have the motor burn out, and then we're not able to allow returns or offer warranty service.We definitely appreciate your interest in our device and we hope to have an international model for you in the future! We're a small brand of 20 employees and we hope to continue to expand our distribution as we grow!"

So i based on this reply where they make very clear to me that the frequency is important..mmmhh

 

[rjenkinsgb]

Our team has tried many solutions to try to get the device working with different voltages and frequencies, but we haven't found anything yet.

The big question, then, is how did they ever release them in the UK!!!!
Either none were actually sold - or they DID have a solution for a 230V 50Hz version.

Someone, somewhere, is not being truthful.

 

[and.and]

The big question, then, is how did they ever release them in the UK!!!!
Either none were actually sold - or they DID have a solution for a 230V 50Hz version.

Someone, somewhere, is not being truthful.

Exactly sir, this is what i want to discover too, kind want to re-create (for lack of expression) one of that.

Either none were actually sold

They were sold here till 2019 for a small period of time, before covid started. I know it becouse i find it online and kn youtube that people from UK have been purchasing...
So i agree with you there and i belive that should be a minor editing in the hardware design that let it work also on the 230V50hz but is not clear how to do it..

 

[rjenkinsgb]

So i agree with you there and i belive that should be a minor editing in the hardware design that let it work also on the 230V50hz but is not clear how to do it..

That's the big question to ask the makers!

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

thank you for your interest sir, i already contacted them let me paste here for you what they did reply :

"Our device just won't work outside of a native 120V/60Hz outlet unfortunately! If you try to use it in something like a 230V/50Hz outlet with a step-down converter, there are two things that may happen. The first is that it might display a "P" to indicate an internal power failure and it won't turn on. The second is that it may start up momentarily and the motor will spin so fast that it will burn out and become unusable. Our team has tried many solutions to try to get the device working with different voltages and frequencies, but we haven't found anything yet. Since we're only certified for use within the US and Canada, we're also restricted to providing support (returns/warranty) to those regions. We've had people try to take the device outside of the US/Canada and use it in Europe only to have the device not work or to have the motor burn out, and then we're not able to allow returns or offer warranty service.We definitely appreciate your interest in our device and we hope to have an international model for you in the future! We're a small brand of 20 employees and we hope to continue to expand our distribution as we grow!"

So i based on this reply where they make very clear to me that the frequency is important..mmmhh

Sorry, I would say they are telling you absolute rubbish, and someone non-technical is just making things up.

I notice they specify 'converter' - which I would imagine means the completely useless non-transformer devices that don't work, and would destroy it.

However, it seems HIGHLY unlikely that a simple 230V/120V auto-transformer wouldn't work, as the frequency is unlikely to make any difference.

One possibility 'could' be that the speed control is done using a micro-controller?, and the software is so poorly written that it will only work on 60Hz, and not 50Hz - but I'd like to think that's very unlikely, as it would be a simple 'fix'.

Easy answer - buy a different hair drier

 

[MaxHeadRoom78]

As I posted elsewhere, the demo video shows that it sucks the hair into the device itself by vacuum, with settable heat settings, and the motor evidentally sounds like a vacuum cleaner which could point to a Universal motor?
It would be strange to have frequency dependent devices on it?

 

[rjenkinsgb]

the demo video shows that it sucks the hair into the device itself by vacuum, with settable heat settings, and the motor evidentally sounds like a vacuum cleaner which could point to a Universal motor?

The angled stub tube sticking out the side of the nozzle must presumably be the heater unit with a second fan for guaranteed airflow, that introduces hot air at the tip of the suction nozzle.

The comment about them "melting" when using on transformers may mean the speed or airflow ratio between the two fans gets messed up, with insufficient flow through the heater area?

 

[For The Popcorn]

The comment about them "melting" when using on transformers may mean the speed or airflow ratio between the two fans gets messed up, with insufficient flow through the heater area?

As I recall, they along claim the motor speed can runaway. This suggests the speed control mechanism gets confused when operating at 50 Hz.

"Just test it." is an absurd comment where testing could lead to destruction of a $400 product.

"They're probably lying...." – why would they lie? If they had some mechanism of making the thing operate at 240V/50Hz, I would think their response would be "If you do this, it will run fine. How many would you like?"

 

[Diver300]

As I recall, they along claim the motor speed can runaway. This suggests the speed control mechanism gets confused when operating at 50 Hz.

"Just test it." is an absurd comment where testing could lead to destruction of a $400 product.

"They're probably lying...." – why would they lie? If they had some mechanism of making the thing operate at 240V/50Hz, I would think their response would be "If you do this, it will run fine. How many would you like?"

A runaway could easily be caused by some semiconductor failing, which could well be caused if the peak voltage from some converter wasn't reduced.

I don't think it's absurd to just try it on a transformer. I know it's $400, and there is a risk of damage, but it's less money than an iPhone, and those are risked, and lost, every minute of every day somewhere in the world.

The manufacturers have no interest in suggesting a voltage converter as there doesn't seem to be anything that can supply that much power that is vaguely portable, and even if there is, there's no easy way for a non-technical potential customer to recognise which ones are suitable.

It's not the sort of appliance that customers will want to take on vacation, so very few people will want to use them outside of the country that they are sold in, so there is almost no commercial advantage in advising customers how to run them from 240 V, and it would leave them open to claims if they did say it could be done.

 

[rjenkinsgb]

I don't think it's absurd to just try it on a transformer. I know it's $400, and there is a risk of damage, but it's less money than an iPhone, and those are risked, and lost, every minute of every day somewhere in the world.

Agreed.

And as long as it's a properly rated transformer, there should be no overvoltage to cause instant damage, plus any overheating should take at least a few seconds if not minutes, so time to disconnect power if there is any apparent problem such as the heaters start glowing.

 

[ZipZapOuch]

The most powerful voltage and frequency converter | X-15

The X-15 is the world’s most powerful Voltage and Frequency power converter available for personal use. Available in white. While being small and portable, it regenerates 15 Amps of power that exceed in quality and regulation of a dual socket home outlet.

www.powerxchanger.com

And

Economic Step Down Voltage and Frequency Converter

Economic Step Down Voltage and Frequency Converter, low cost and yet high quality. Economy Series, EX Series is a perfect 120Volt/60Hz AC power source. It converts 220Volt/50Hz to 120Volt/60Hz.

www.powerxchanger.com

 

[Diver300]

The most powerful voltage and frequency converter | X-15

The X-15 is the world’s most powerful Voltage and Frequency power converter available for personal use. Available in white. While being small and portable, it regenerates 15 Amps of power that exceed in quality and regulation of a dual socket home outlet.

www.powerxchanger.com

And

Economic Step Down Voltage and Frequency Converter

Economic Step Down Voltage and Frequency Converter, low cost and yet high quality. Economy Series, EX Series is a perfect 120Volt/60Hz AC power source. It converts 220Volt/50Hz to 120Volt/60Hz.

www.powerxchanger.com

The price, size and weight of those shows that converting from 50 Hz to 60 Hz is not practical for a hairdryer. Revair be worried about their image if they suggested a $1500+ converter for a $400 hairdryer, even if it would work.

 

[and.and]

as it would be a simple 'fix'.

thank you so much for your courtesy and interest ,
so according to your quote even tho that may be the case it can be fixed, by us or by the manufacturer?

"Just test it." is an absurd comment where testing could lead to destruction of a $400 product.

thank you so much mate for wearing my shoes , that iam very determined in this project doens mean am rich lol
maybe after new clients start to come ..lol

A runaway could easily be caused by some semiconductor failing

thank you for each one of your message mate, from the beggining of this thread from you like many other here iam really taking note and learning a lot.

I know it's $400, and there is a risk of damage

actually... to be honest just today i was thinking about something. to buy 2 revair from ebay used trying to spend total $400
the shipping fee and duty tax will double... but i want to do that becouse on my threads i have notice 2 different theoryes
1. is about the importance of the frequency conversion
2. is about the importance to just get a good transformer.
so if in case i burn the first revair with the transformer, at least we will know that the support team was right. then i will just sell the transformer on ebay , and the other remaining revair we may try to see behind the scenes what can be done about the frequency, once i send pictures.
sincerely Andrea

 

[MaxHeadRoom78]

If you do go the route of buying two, and using one as a test/guinea pig , if it fails, at least you could open it up and find out as much of the inner working details.
In an effort to make a possible positive result on the second!

 

[ZipZapOuch]

The price, size and weight of those shows that converting from 50 Hz to 60 Hz is not practical for a hairdryer. Revair be worried about their image if they suggested a $1500+ converter for a $400 hairdryer, even if it would work.

Sorry, I'm an engineer. My value is getting things done. So far, there's been 12 people monitoring and posting on this topic for a week. Well over $1600 worth of consulting labor. My solution seems more efficient if y'all weren't giving away your expertise for free for a one-off problem.

 

[ZipZapOuch]

actually... to be honest just today i was thinking about something. to buy 2 revair from ebay used trying to spend total $400

By the time you buy two, diddle around and try to buy test equipment, tools and electrical parts in Italy, you may be much better off (safer, more reliable and faster) to pay the $1600 and call it a day.

Or, you could have a heart-to-heart talk with your wife about global warming and all the benefits of air-drying hair the natural way.