Is There an Engineering Type: what is your experience?

[large_ghostman]

Testing long term memory is easier than short term, long term memory by its nature is fixed in an area of the brain once you are 21=25 this area is fixed, before that age the long term area is used for other things and is one of the areas that gets a complete rewire at puberty.Once the memory center is fixed it can be imaged on a PET scanner, you are asked a series of questions and they look for evidence that he area fires when you answer.

Short term memory is different and the area of the brain responsible looks different, the only tests are the standard memory tests. These mainly look for ability to recall from long term memory, such as holding up a pencil and asking what it is. While a pencil is recalled from LT memory it is stored immediately in short term memory.

 

[gophert]

Testing long term memory is easier than short term, long term memory by its nature is fixed in an area of the brain once you are 21=25 this area is fixed, before that age the long term area is used for other things and is one of the areas that gets a complete rewire at puberty.Once the memory center is fixed it can be imaged on a PET scanner, you are asked a series of questions and they look for evidence that he area fires when you answer.

Short term memory is different and the area of the brain responsible looks different, the only tests are the standard memory tests. These mainly look for ability to recall from long term memory, such as holding up a pencil and asking what it is. While a pencil is recalled from LT memory it is stored immediately in short term memory.

So, there are only two levels of memory in a human? I was hoping I was better than my laptop. It has CPU Cache, RAM and disk drive. I think it even has multiple levels of CPU Cache.

 

[large_ghostman]

So, there are only two levels of memory in a human? I was hoping I was better than my laptop. It has CPU Cache, RAM and disk drive. I think it even has multiple levels of CPU Cache.

No there is broadly two main groups, there is actually several memory centers in two main areas if that makes sense? People with brain damage can store memory in other places, some areas that were considered memory sectors are not actually memory areas.

 

[spec]

I answered no to number 11, I am starting to think the question is a typo?? I am stunned none of the engineer types have picked this up.

Women are illogical not logical. But the question i think has been worded wrong

So is this meant to be worded this way?

I picked that up and fixed it in my response. I am pretty sure it is supposed to say "women are illogical".

Then I will change my answer Matt sorry for messing up the stats

About the logical thing. I really would like to divide this into two parts to resolve any confusion and to make the answer more meaningful.

(11a) Think that women are logical

(11b) Think that all men are logical

I know it means more work Matt, but it would be much appreciated if you could you handle this with your stats, as I consider it is a fundamentally important area.

The reasoning behind these questions is that, on the whole, Eng types tend to be more analytical and logical than average, and tend to assume that everyone else is also logical. But this is a fallacy and can causes all sorts of misunderstandings and difficulties.

Firstly women are not logical so it is important to interface with them carefully.

Some men are logical but others are not.

So I learned that, before discussing technical/delicate/controversial matters, to consider the personal/political aspects first.

As an example: I was systems engineer on a critical hand- held sub-system where every gram in weight and every miliwatt consumed, reduced the mission time. Our customer was another contractor who were, in turn, contracted to the military for the whole system. I noticed that if one of the interfaces were slightly modified a system cable could be eliminated. This may not sound like much, but in this system it was a big deal. I was really chuffed.

At the next customer meeting I presented my findings, but instead of being pleased, as I expected, the customers technical lead stood up and launched into a long tirade about the interface being their end of the boat and that I was presumptuous, overbearing and so on. I was flabbergasted. Then damn me, if this same chap didn’t march up to the white board, examined the drawing of my approach, and say, OK we will do it that way, in a tone that implied that he was doing me a favour. He then carried on with the personal attack. Meanwhile my project manager and the customer’s project manager said not a word.

 

[large_ghostman]

couldnt you just shorten that to people being logical?

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Been subjected to memory testing. Fails.

 

[large_ghostman]

If memory is so great why do so many people drink to forget?

 

[cowboybob]

Here ya go, Matt:

(01) Some sleep problems, especially when a particular job is not going well. Y
(02) Worrier. Y
(03) Hay-fever and general allergies. N
(04) Migraine. N
(05) Left handed. N
(06) Dyslexic. Y
(07) Difficult spelling. Y
(08) Uneasy punctuation and grammar. N
(09) Difficult second languages. Y
(10) Pedantic or perhaps particular is a better word. N
(11) Think that females are generally logical and that all males are logical. ? (This one needs work - Too general))
(12) Hoarder. Y (to a fault).
(13) Fond of animals, Y
(14) Inquisitive. Y
(15) Industrious. Y
(16) Inventive. Y
(17) Independent. Y
(18) Self motivated. Y
(19) Good sense of humour. Y
(20) Have electronics bench/workshop at home. Y
(21) Quiet and considered to be different. Y
(22) Limited emotion. N
(23) Strong willed. Y
(24) Imaginative. Y
(25) Illegible handwriting. N
(26) Bitter about being overlooked/ falsely wronged by management. Y
(27) Great satisfaction from creating something. Y
(28) Enjoy own company. Y

 

[cowboybob]

If memory is so great why do so many people drink to forget?

They forget that it doesn't work .

 

[spec]

couldnt you just shorten that to people being logical?

That would miss the point. The objective of the two questions is the complications caused by the failure to recognize the three groups, not the groups themselves or the logicality per se of Eng types:
(1) illogical women
(2) illogical men
(3) logical men

Failure to recognize (1) especially is a characteristic of Eng types, in my experience that is.

 

[large_ghostman]

That would miss the point. The objective of the two questions is the complications caused by the failure to recognize the three groups, not the groups themselves or the logicality per se of Eng types:
(1) illogical women
(2) illogical men
(3) logical men

Failure to recognize (1) especially is a characteristic of Eng types, in my experience that is.

Watch the hate mail flow , I would argue a scientist is more logical than a engineer......................Based on a limited experience of living with one scientist and knowing a few, I know engineers are logical thinkers (sometimes) but from my experience scientist are frustratingly logical to the point of mr spock drive you mad logical. Being logical isnt always a good thing.

As far as I am aware women have no upgrade port for the logical upgrade pack, I think the curtain pack takes up the socket

 

[spec]

Being logical isn't always a good thing.

I know what you mean, but I would modify that:
Being logical is always a good thing, but acting logical is often not a good thing.

As far as I am aware women have no upgrade port for the logical upgrade pack, I think the curtain pack takes up the socket

If I understand this correctly, you make me laugh. On the rare occasions when I have been shopping for curtains with my wife she has entered into a very wiered state which I couldn't handle and had to walk away. Yet, just a bunch of flowers will put her into a very amiable mood.

About the way that males interface with females: I don't know how many times people have pulled out in front of me while I am driving, but once I find it is a woman, and it always is, I somehow can't be that angry. I have felt like thumping many blokes, but have never felt the slightest inclination to do the same thing to a female, even though they do things extremely annoying.

A group of us were in a pub and on the next table was this chap who was continuously messing with his hair, was talking about himself and generally ponsing about. He was really annoying me especially as he kept looking over at our table and was obviously listening in on our conversation. Then he stood up and walked to the bar and I realized that he was a woman. Now, far from annoying me, she seemed quite normal, and caused me no concern whatsoever. To me this illustrated how fundamentally different women are to men, but it also illustrated how differently men interface to women compared to other men.

 

[large_ghostman]

If I understand this correctly, you make me laugh. On the rare occasions when I have been shopping for curtains with my wife she has entered into a very wiered state which I couldn't handle and had to walk away. Yet, just a bunch of flowers will put her into a very amiable state.

Your wife comes with the push over pack, not all women are this easy to forgive (like my mum for example), be thankful you picked one with this upgrade in place, I have been told you dont always know what options they come with until they are fully installed.

but have never felt the slightest inclination to do the same thing to a female, even though they do things extremely annoying.

Often this is due to the ones with the body work upgrade pack which comes in different grades from A-U (U being very UGLY).

A group of us were in a pub and on the next table was this chap who was continuously messing with his hair, was talking about himself and generally ponsing about. He was really annoying me especially as he kept looking over at our table and was obviously listening in on our conversation. Then he stood up and walked to the bar and I realized that he was a woman. Now, far from annoying me, she seemed quite normal, and caused me no concern whatsoever. To me this illustrated how fundamentally different women are to men, but it also illustrated how differently men interface to women than to other men.

I have no experience of this but apparently google assures me some can have the camouflage pub pack upgrade, I dont have much info on this for you sorry.

LG

 

[spec]

Your wife comes with the push over pack, not all women are this easy to forgive (like my mum for example), be thankful you picked one with this upgrade in place.

My wife never bears a grudge. Yes, as you say I am very lucky. And how the hell she puts up with me heaven only knows. That's what most people think too.

I have been told you don't always know what options they come with until they are fully installed.

Too true, but one clue is to look at the mother. Also they change quite a bit according to environment and pregnant/with kids/past kid age, etc, etc. In fact, they are like one big chemistry set. It also amazes me how different they look in the raw compared to all dolled up ready to go out. I much prefer the former, but my wife cannot understand that and would not dream of putting a foot outside without make-up on.

Often this is due to the ones with the body work upgrade pack which comes in different grades from A-U (U being very UGLY).

I know what you mean, but when it comes to lack of physical aggression it is just the female thing. You see this in the animal world, where the males and females never fight, which is not the case for animals of the same sex.

I have no experience of this but apparently google assures me some can have the camouflage pub pack upgrade, I dont have much info on this for you sorry.

Not too sure of your meaning- is it that when they go out they are all dolled up and look quite different. The pub, male...female I mentioned was definitely all female. It was just that she had angular features, short hair and was wearing a jacket with padded shoulders that made me think she was a bloke at first: three or four pints of Butcombe didn't help either.

 

[strantor]

I don't know why you guys can't be upset at someone just because they have a vagina. I get pissed at women same as men. And kids too.

I am however more likely to confront a man. Why? Because society condones (or even encourages) it. Stick up for yourself. If you're going for an apology but you get a fight, then fight it is. Win or lose, for some reason people respect that.

But what good can come of confrontation with a woman or a child? Consider a woman; if you don't get the apology, then it's going to be a case of "drag you down to their level of stupid and then beat you with home court advantage. " If it's a child, the villagers are surely on their way with pitchforks and fire.

Plus, squaring off with a worthy opponent gives a feeling of accomplishment.

Getting pissed at guys is a lot more manageable so if I have to get pissed at anyone I would prefer it be a guy, but women and kids are usually culprits and I can't help but let their shenanigans get the better of me.

 

[strantor]

This line of discussion reminds me of the famous first week of 9th grade around here. The year that a bunch of home-schooled kids are in public school for the first time. Before this date, these kids were all protected by their parents. Playing carefully organized sports with other home-schooled kids and continually being told by their parents that they are the best. These kids join the general population and have no social skills and, as said above, they don't know what they don't know in this area. All the unwritten rules of grades K - 8 must be learned. They must also learn where they sit in the pecking order of athleticism, intellect, leadership, and many more. It is tough for these kids. Many become social recluses. Some get dragged to the front of the class by their mothers for special introductions - (some are embarrassed and some don't know they should be embarrassed). A crazy time. Similar fates for some kids from private schools but to a much lesser degree that home schooled kids. Anyhow, the stories from the non-home schooled kids about their new peers are funny and sad at the same time.

I know this scenario too well; I lived it. I've posted about it on AAC, not sure if you saw that.

I was home schooled but went to a private school for 5th and 6th grade. I went to public school for the first time half way thru 8th grade. I said maybe 20 words the whole year. For 9th grade I went to live with my dad and it was a new school, new kids, new start, with what I had learned thru silent observation in 8th grade. I found out I was pretty good at emulating, blending in. I chose the template of rebellious stoner. I was so into character that I by the time I graduated, I actually believed it all myself. I declined to go to college because that's what a rebellious stoner would do.

Once I was out of school, away from all the people who I was playing the part for, I realized I had made a mistake. So I turned 180 degrees and went into the military. I played that role pretty well too.

 

[gophert]

I know this scenario too well; I lived it. I've posted about it on AAC, not sure if you saw that.

I was home schooled but went to a private school for 5th and 6th grade. I went to public school for the first time half way thru 8th grade. I said maybe 20 words the whole year. For 9th grade I went to live with my dad and it was a new school, new kids, new start, with what I had learned thru silent observation in 8th grade. I found out I was pretty good at emulating, blending in. I chose the template of rebellious stoner. I was so into character that I by the time I graduated, I actually believed it all myself. I declined to go to college because that's what a rebellious stoner would do.

Once I was out of school, away from all the people who I was playing the part for, I realized I had made a mistake. So I turned 180 degrees and went into the military. I played that role pretty well too.

After I wrote that, I started thinking about how many people I offended. I did not recall your home schooled story. My info about home schooled kids is mostly second-hand info from my kids. My kids mostly criticized the parents of home schooled kids, not the kids. They could see some poor kids trying to fit in or some other home schooled kids trying to make everyone else fit into their reality. Weird situation. I like the proposal in Callifornia to allow home schooling only if the parent has a current teaching certificate in the subjects they plan to teach at home.

Decisions made for kids can be positive but rarely are. My parents thought I should graduate high school a couple years early and start college. It wasn't bad, but but putting a 16-year-old on a campus wasn't good either.

 

[spec]

About home schooling, single sex schooling, and jumping years:

Home schooling
If the schools in an area are deficient in some way, home schooling can be a good thing. If the pupil is different- bright, not so bright, medical/mental problems- home schooling can also be a good thing. Where it can seriously fall down, as some of the posts imply, is that it does not give the pupil an experience of life: interfacing with girls, boys, teachers. It also often falls down on the physical exercise and sport side. It is also highly dependent on the skill of the home teacher and any biases they might have.

Single sex
It seems to me that for learning, single sex is the best, purely because there are less distractions. But where it falls down badly is in gaining experience with the opposite sex. In my area, it was noticeable that the boys from the single-sex grammar school were way behind the boys from the mixed-sex secondary school when it came to girlfriends and generally mixing with girls.

Jumping years
This seems like a good idea, but I could never see the point of it, and it often causes problems for the pupil because it introduces a discontinuity in their normal development. I suffered from this and also from changing schools when my father was posted to different RAF stations.

It also completely messed my wife's education. Her teachers and parents insisted on pushing her up one year because she was so bright, in spite of my wife's pleading to be left where she was. The result was disastrous because, she not only moved away from her friends, but the older girls were resentful and made her life hell- as girls are inclined to do. The outcome was that she quit school and took a shorthand typing course at the local tech college.

 

[JoeJester]

strantor

I have some short term memory loss ... according to some interactions between me and my wife. This could be true. Sometimes I think I have a pornographic memory with no pornograph to play the tunes.

I remembered where a college was this week that I looked up about three years ago for it's address. Norwood, GA was the town.

I agree it would take a long, a really long term study to come to a decent conclusion.

 

[spec]

To what extent is character changed by experiences/environment.

I would say that people's character, outlook, and even physical well-being are greatly affected by their experiences and environment, both is the past, especially in childhood, and present. For example, in a good work environment, I can be productive, efficient, cooperative etc, but in a bad work environment I can be the opposite.

In the services there is the classic situation where the most errant rebellious recruit is promoted and does a complete 180 degree change. I saw this a lot in the RAF.
In many cases, when I met some of the most troublesome kids from from our school later in life, they had matured into the most conservative of people and had become family men with all the ties that that implies.

As I have said before, and this is general and not aimed at anyone in particular, the number of times that people have said that they have this or that shortcoming and the number of times subsequent events have proved otherwise, shows that these supposed shortcomings have not proved to be significant limiting factors. The other point is, so you have a stutter, so you can't spell, so you have a birthmark on your face- so what. Are they really going to limit you? I think not and this is evidenced by people who have the most severe problems but are still achievers: Stephen Hawkins is the the most vivid example of this. There are people, though, who do have insurmountable severely limiting problems- I accept that.