Stanley Meyers and Zero-Point energy

[blueroomelectronics]

The car with a steam engine needs to have a big fire to heat the water. Does it burn coal?

It runs on pure unobtainium, and water of course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium

 

[Oznog]

**broken link removed**

Of course they're real. Zero point modules right there.

The thing is, say a guy has invented a process by which you stick 3 marbles in a box, a confusing array of steps by which the box is turned over and around and opened from the opposite side, and now you have 4 marbles. Now apply all the surrounding text of any free energy story and you'll go "well, obviously this is made up and either never happened or people changed the story badly".

That's exactly how an engineer will see it, because there's a fixed rule- energy is neither created nor destroyed. It's a persistent object just like a marble. This rule gets use a lot. And given the millions of tests that have been applied to steam and water and electricity and pressure over the centuries, and even a 0.1% discrepancy would quickly be noticed in modern tests, if it were all wrong then it would have come up by now.

ZPE is a little more mysterious and harder to disprove because it claims to take in energy from an unobservable source not make new energy, except for the simple fact that it's EASY to get people to believe something with a repeatable demonstration. No problem. Go to your nearest university with a working model and spend a week or month going over it. If it's demonstrable and repeatable and there's money or fame involved hell there's no stopping it from making it into cannonized science.

 

[Hero999]

firewater,
The rectifier, resistor and capacitor idea won't work, I've already thought of it and came to the conclusion that it's a silly idea.

What temperature are the capacitor and diode at?

The only chance this could possibly work is if the diode an capacitor are at a lower temperature than the resistor, thereby forming a temperature gradient which can do work.

The forward voltage of the rectifier is higher than any thermal noise generated in the resistor so all the energy will be lost in the diode.

Leakage currents tend to increase with temperature meaning that the energy will be lost in reverse conduction.

The most obvious flaw in the circuit is that noise in the diode and capacitor will cancel out the noise in the resistor, if they are at the same temperature - noise powers do not add unless there's an amplifier to provide gain.

Similar kinds of things have been attempted using non-linear mechanical components and liquids (a liquid's particles will continuously move around randomly) and it didn't work.

Forget the diode and capacitor, current doesn't need to be DC to do work, why not just get the thermal noise to power another resistor which will heat the other resistor up even more? Lol, what rubbish!

I don't fully understand the other scientific articles you've posted but the one about the capacitor, resistor and diode has cast a shadow over their credibility. If you knew about how thermal noise works then you probably would not have posted it, which leads me to believe that you don't understand the other scientific articles you've posted.

Posting articles that you don't seem to understand does not help your cause, it just detracts from your arguement by making it appear as though you don't know what you're talking about.

By the way, photons are not particles, they're electromagnetic ways, it's just that they behave like particles sometimes and the same goes for protons, they are particles but they can also behave like waves.

One of the articles you linked, seems to imply that Stanley Meyers' trial was rigged. Assuming this is true, you could argue that it was a conspiracy. The question is who would do such a thing? It could be the investors but I doubt they'd get away with it. You could say it's the government being manipulated by oil companies but if they were that powerful you would've thought they'd be able to have successfully crushed any research into climate change.

There's no such thing as perpetual motion, if I told you I could magic gold out of empty space would you believe me?

I assume the answer is no or you're more of a nutter than I thought you were.

Then why should we believe you that you can create energy from nothing?

I don't understand why so many people fall for the free energy fallacy. I don't see as many people believing that you can magically create matter from nothing. As far as I'm aware, energy and matter are different forms of the same thing, perhaps energy is thust a bit harder to understand (you can't physically see it most of the time) so people are more easilly fooled by it.

 

[firewater]

I apprecipate your input on the rectifier, resistor and capacitor and I will reasearch it more and post my thoughts. That is exactly the kind of conversion I am attempting to invoke but everyone has allready said what they think about the facts surrounding Meyers device and his death and conclude it's a conspiracy theory. Your all intitled to your opnion. The facts as I said, can be inperpereted many ways. It's redundant to continue with those. Lets focus on what can be proven. Here is a very interesting and informative paper on the Casimir Effect and Vacuum Fluctuations.
https://www.hep.caltech.edu/~phys199/lectures/lect5_6_cas.pdf

 

[arrie]

Oh No...

not this topic again....

 

[killivolt]

Thanks to Stanley supporters.

Oh No...

not this topic again....

We will continue this over and over and .... well you get the point.

Does your head hurt arrie ?



kv

 

[3v0]

Oh No...

not this topic again....

The term bad penny comes to mind.
And Poor Flicka.

 

[Blueteeth]

Firewater,

Just an fyi on prototyping such circuits as 'the rectifier, resistor and capacitor idea'. In order to get accurate results you must shield it from all known external energy sources, because if it claims overunity (more energy out than is put in) then the energy must come from somewhere. If theres a new wacky form of energy to be tapped, you don't want to pick up RF. So some lead shielding would be handy. You want to make it a completely closed system - although thats impossible, its something to strive for.

My 0.0138740 Euros.

Blueteeth.

Also, just noticed in your original post 'ran on pure tap water'.. 'pure tap water' is an oxymoron, as tap water is far from pure The impurities vary widely across the world from flouride in the west, to mercury in the south, lead, copper etc.. Same goes for mineral water of course, totally impure.

 

[philba]

Since there is a never ending supply of gullibles out there, I suggest we all have a little fun with it.

I just wish my scruples didn't prevent me from making money off of them - I could have retired young.

 

[Blueteeth]

And its that attitude that fuels the culture. If you want less posts about pseudo-science, however ridiculous, perhaps another approach is needed rather than pointless posts/comments.

Blueteeth

 

[HarveyH42]

Firewater,

Just an fyi on prototyping such circuits as 'the rectifier, resistor and capacitor idea'. In order to get accurate results you must shield it from all known external energy sources, because if it claims overunity (more energy out than is put in) then the energy must come from somewhere. If theres a new wacky form of energy to be tapped, you don't want to pick up RF. So some lead shielding would be handy. You want to make it a completely closed system - although thats impossible, its something to strive for.

My 0.0138740 Euros.

Blueteeth.

Also, just noticed in your original post 'ran on pure tap water'.. 'pure tap water' is an oxymoron, as tap water is far from pure The impurities vary widely across the world from flouride in the west, to mercury in the south, lead, copper etc.. Same goes for mineral water of course, totally impure.

Should also look at the contents of bottled water... Only a little better than tap water...

 

[philba]

And its that attitude that fuels the culture. If you want less posts about pseudo-science, however ridiculous, perhaps another approach is needed rather than pointless posts/comments.

Blueteeth

hah! Every month there is some guy that posts about this really cool intention that basically violates the laws of thermodynamics. They haven't gone back and read the forum so they blithely post their "discovery". They always wind up saying "you should have an open mind". They always point to some "authoratative" web site. Nothing you can say will stop them. They keep coming. So why bother? I recall Nigel saying that this section was created to shunt these kinds of posts here. Lighten up.

 

[3v0]

And its that attitude that fuels the culture. If you want less posts about pseudo-science, however ridiculous, perhaps another approach is needed rather than pointless posts/comments.

Blueteeth

For what I have seen they think that science can be ignored or is a scam. Rather then generate anything unique or useful they copy designs from the internet without understanding them. Sounds a lot like religion.

What approach would you suggest ?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

For what I have seen they think that science can be ignored or is a scam. Rather then generate anything unique or useful they copy designs from the internet without understanding them. Sounds a lot like religion.

Just like religion, both are superstitions with no basis in fact or reality, yet both have many people who still believe in them - despite zero evidence to support them.

 

[Blueteeth]

Well religion and science have some overlap.....although religion is based on faith, science is based on small leaps of faith, held together with logic and reasoning. Pseudo-science fits somewhere in between.... less logistical analysis and more faith. A person who studies science and believes it IS how things work, is no different from a person with strong religious belief's. Both require faith.

We trust in convention science because, frankly, it works. The models we are taught can predict results, make sense, and have allowed us to create fantastic technology. That doesn't necessarily give us the whole picture. You still can't see 'atoms', or directly detect (human senses) RF, so it is in some way 'inferred' - therefore adding some ambiguity.

Philba: I only said that because it seems to be a very common occurance in this section of the forum, which I suppose is to be expected as 'fringe science' has a huge following. If every time a person quotes a story, or discusses a bizarre device, we immediately go on the defensive, then it only serves to re-enforce the idea. Like a cult Of course I could be completely wrong but it seems that by posting somewhat 'snide' comments in response to something as ambiguous this just makes people post more, in an effort to 'change your mid'. I'm sure they can't change your mind, as they can't change mine.

3V0: what would I suggest? good question. If you are not interested in the topic, then why post? If it seems like someone is 'preaching' (not the case here) then an unanswered post will stop that.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I see more and more posts that are utterly useless. Is this boredom? Or merely a way to bolster ones number of posts? I'm all for discussion, but surely it should be in some way helpful.

I am not trying to flame people here, just curious as to your views on the matter. I wouldn't waste a post just to 'have a go' at someone.

Blueteeth

 

[3v0]

Blueteeth,

Religious faith dictates that you do not doubt the party line.

That is very different from science where people are encouraged to prove existing theories wrong. And rewarded for it.

In a good science class you will have a lab. do experiments. In religion experiments are frowned upon. Testing God, yeah you betcha... thats not going to happen.

I agree with you regarding the useless posts on the alternate energy forum specifically.

Personally I would be glad to help most anyone build a better mousetrap. Even if I do NOT buy into it. But at best they seem to be making poor copies of questionable devices that they do not understand.

 

[ArrowHead]

A dedicated site would be great but there are allready two much better one's than I could ever hope to make myself. **broken link removed** and https://my.opera.com/h2earth/blog/cybrarium but none of you or the other visitors to this site would have seen this information. I wanted to bring this information to the inventors, amatuer and pro who visit this site who could possiblly make a breakthrough. Some of the greatest inventions in history were discovered by amatuers on accident.

Zero-Point energy proof: 10^93grams/cm^3

4. C. Misner, K. Thorne, and J. Wheeler, Graviation, W.H. Freeman and Co. (1970)
Chapters 43 and 44 contain description of zero-point fluctuations and superspace.

You forgot to address me as “Your Majesty”.…

 

[rjvh]

I wanted to bring this information to the inventors, amatuer and pro who visit this site who could possiblly make a breakthrough. Some of the greatest inventions in history were discovered by amatuers on accident.


.[/B]

AMEN go spread the word and be rewarded

Robert-Jan

 

[rwahrens]

Laws of physics

As an professional inventor, I believe my time is better spent learning more about the laws of physics than trying to disprove them or find a loophole.

Having said that, I do find those who believe otherwise to be mostly harmless and a source of cheap entertainment. Try googling "bessler wheel" to see what I mean.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

Nice read the Bessler wheel. Including this sidenote...

Bessler and his machine vanished into obscurity. It is known that he was rebuilding his machine in 1727 and that s'Gravesande had agreed to examine it again, but it is not known whether it was ever tested. In 1727 Bessler's maid, Anne Rosine Mauersbergerin, testified that his machines had been turned manually from an adjoining room. s'Gravesande wrote that he believed Bessler was "mad" but not such an obvious fraud. Bessler died in 1745, aged sixty-five, when he fell to his death from a four-and-a-half-story windmill he was constructing in **broken link removed**.