The real entertainment value of the Bessler Wheel is reading some of the associated forums. The concept seems to keep a lot of ignorant people busy. My hope is by occupying themselves with this sort of thing, they won't have time to run for Congress.
Does your head hurt arrie ?
kv
I am not so much ignorant as evil, self centered, corrupt, power hungry....Unfortunately this means the even more ignorant ones run for Congress instead!
Blueteeth,
Religious faith dictates that you do not doubt the party line.
That is very different from science where people are encouraged to prove existing theories wrong. And rewarded for it.
In a good science class you will have a lab. do experiments. In religion experiments are frowned upon. Testing God, yeah you betcha... thats not going to happen.
I agree with you regarding the useless posts on the alternate energy forum specifically.
Personally I would be glad to help most anyone build a better mousetrap. Even if I do NOT buy into it. But at best they seem to be making poor copies of questionable devices that they do not understand.
As a matter of fact, there is one thing that you can test God on.
I often enjoy responding to these sorts of threads. I feel that I am doing good by educatiog someone who obviously doesn't know much about the laws of physics and engineering.Oh No...
not this topic again....
The free heating thing is actually an interesting idea though the guy goes on and on instead of presenting the actual idea in the first page or so. It's not a new idea - for example, people have been using the decomposition of manure to heat cold frames for a long time now. However, it's probably impractical for most people (it's a lot of work, needs larger areas than a furnace and the smell can get pretty strong). You do get lots of nice compost for gardening, though.
... and not dating either. I can see it now - "hey baby, wanna come over? I'll cook you a meal on my digester".He must be single
... and not dating either. I can see it now - "hey baby, wanna come over? I'll cook you a meal on my digester".
I looked at that design and don't see how he gets that much heat from that small volume. If he did get 150F, wouldn't that kill the micro-organisms that it relies on? Also, the comment about almost no residue is hard to believe. I'd like to see a volume comparison vs the same starting volume but burned to ash. It's got to be significantly higher. Probably the biggest drawback (which makes it impractical) is the need to load and unload the machine. You'd need a bank of them to keep the heat going
I totaly agree.Personally, I'd rather see the Alternative Energy forum be restricted to the actual usable systems. These unproven schemes should be in ****-chat. ....
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Now How ironic is this, these are the adds above the first page of this thread, does that impliment that the general feeling is suportive of these ideas around here???
It's been said that Stanley Meyer's invention which split water into hydrogen and oxygen on demand violates the second law of thermodynamics.
"Scientists' current understanding of the universe and all its particles and forces is called the Standard Model and is now over 35 years old. It does not explain why some particles, such as protons, are relatively heavy, while others, like photons, have no mass at all. In a theory that dates to the early 1960s, a British physicist named Peter Higgs sugessted that there was a mechanism - alternatively described as a field, boson, a particle, a whaddayacallit - that makes some things heavy and other things lite."
What do the detectors do?
"They will also look for "dark matter" believed to make up most of the universe, antimatter that mirrors all known matter, and the elusive Higgs-boson particle - sometimes called the "God particle", because is is believed to give mass to all other particles."
William Booth, Washigton Post, on the (LHC) Large Hadron Collider built near Geneva Switzerland and now in the testing phase.
The second law of thermodynamics only applies to linear systems and the behavior of the particles involved are based on the Standard Model, which is incomplete.
John Archibald Wheeler who just died recently, worked on the Manhattan Project (Atom bomb) and Matterhorn project (Hydrogen bomb) and was first to coin the phrases, blackhole and wormhole.)
"Then however, I discovered the two chapters of Misner, Thorne and Wheelers's "Gravitation" that in quantum mechnics there existed an all-pervading energy imbedded in the fabric of space consisting of fluctions of electricity. It was called the zero-point energy. Zero-Point energy refers to absolute zero degrees Kelvin. Wheeler's "Geometrodynamics" showed that the energy density was enormous: 10^93grams/cm^3. Quantum mechanics showed that this energy was constantly interacting with matter and elementary particles in what what is called vacuum polarization."
"Modern physics may allow the posibility of tapping energy out of the fabric of space. While studying physics as a graduate student, I ran into a most interesting set of papers.[1-8] they stated that totally empty space was filled with fluctuating energy. As as engineer caught in an energy crisis, two questions arose. Was energy really there and, is so, could it be tapped as a source? I talked with many scientists on this matter and discovered a remarkable thing: Most did not believe this energy existed. However I did run into some physicists who were already familiar with the concept. When I asked them, "Why can't this energy be tapped?" the reply was, "It would violate the second law of thermodynamics, the law of entropy. Random fluctions must forever remain random." To them, there was no way to influence this energy.
Then I discovered the work of Dr. Timothy Boyer who showed that matter influenced this fluctuating energy. And recently, I discovered the work of Dr. Ilya Prigogine, the 1977 Nobel Prize winner in chemistry, who expanded the second law of thermodynamics to show how certain systems may evolve from randomness toward order. Combining their work opens up the possibility, in principle that the fluctuating energy of space may be cohered into a source."
"The recent work of work of Procaccia clarifies the second law of thermodynamics. He demonstrates that nonlinear systems under certain conditions may evolve toward macroscopic order. A simple example of this thesis is the rectifier circuit ( Figure 1). Here thermal noise from the resistor is channeled through the one-way valve of the diode to charge up the capacitor. This, energy in a random state (thermal noise) is channeled to produce energy that can be used for work (charged capacitor)."
"Since a nonlinear system does not exhibit linear superposition, a combination of inputs often produces suprising, synergistic effects--the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts. A striking example of this comes from the field of plasma physics. When sufficient energy (e.g. an electric impulse) is added to a gas, it ionizes into plasma. If more energy is added, the electric charge undergoes violent, random, turbulent motion. If still more energy is added, a surprising thing can sometimes occur:
The violent turblent plasma forms up into a meta-stable vortex ring called a plasmoid.[11-13] Figure 2 is a cross-section diagram of the current flow in the plasmoid. Such a structure cannot be predicted by a linear thermodynamic model, but can be predicted by a nonlinear magnetohydrodynamic model. the nonlinear interactions produce macroscopic coherence form random turblence. This plasmoid vortex ring may produce a cohering resonance with the zero-point energy as the zero-point energy interacts with the plasmoid. This interaction occurs in a nonlinear system evolving toward meta-stable order. Could the plasmoid slightly cohere the zer-point energy by vacuum polarization so that it provides tha energy fux needed to maintain the system? Are ther any examples in nature that imply such a thing could occur? Ball lightning has been modeled as a vortex ring plasmoid[15,16] and its suprising persistence implies it is interacting with some source of energy."
Tapping Zero Point Energy
ISBN: 0-931882-00-2
Moray B. King
REFERENCES
ETHER, ZERO POINT ENERGY
1. M. Rutherfer, "Neutrino Structure of Ether." Lett. Il Nuovo Cimento 13, No. 1, 9 (1975)
This paper references various Lorentz invariant ether thories.
2. H. C. Dudley, The Morality of nuclear Planning, Kronos Press (1976), Glassboro, NJ 08208
This monograph describes a neutrino ether and its relation to radioactivity. Also "Is There an Ether"", Science Digest, (May 15,1975).
3. G. Gamow, Thirty Years that Shook Physics, Doubleday, NY (1966)
This text contains a simple description of Dirac's vitural pair vacuum.
4. C. Misner, K. Thorne, and J. Wheeler, Graviation, W.H. Freeman and Co. (1970)
Chapters 43 and 44 contain description of zero-point fluctuations and superspace. Also John Archibald Wheeler, Geometrodynamics,
Academic Press Inc. (1962) describes vacuum fluctuations and wormholes.
5. T.H. Boyer, "Random Electrodynamics: The Theory of Classical Electrodynamics with Classical Electromagnetic Zero-Point Radiation." Phys. rev. D11, No. 4 790 (1975)
6. M.O. Scully, M. Sargent, "The Concept of the Photon." Physics Today, 38, (March 1972)
7. E. G. Harris, A Pedestrian Approach to Quantum Field Theory, Wiley Interscience (1972). Chapter 10, " The Problem of Infinties in Quantum Electrodymanics."
This text references experiments tha detect the zero-point energy.
8. S.L. Adler, "Some Simple Vacuum Polarization Phenomenology..." Phys. Rev. D10, No. 11 (1974)
NONLINEAR THERMODYNAMICS
9. Ilya Procaccia, J. Ross, Science 198, 716 (18 Nov. 1977)
10. P. Glandsdorff, I. Prigogine, Thermodynamic Theory of Structure, Stability, and Fluctuations, Wiley interscience, NY (1971).
15. P.O. Johnson, " Ball Lightning and Self Containing Electromagnetic Fields." Am. J. Phys. 33, 119 (1965).
16. M. B. King, "Energy Source Implications of a Helicon Toroid Model for Ball Lightning." QPR No. 18, Valley Forge Res. Center, Moore School, University of Pennsylvanna (1976)
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