Stereo Guitar Cabinet Switcher

[HiTech]

I think they do it because it's needed to keep from destroying the horribly overrated and erroneously valued TUBE Amplifier (strains of 'there I said it again'). I don't want to destroy my tube amplifier..I LIKE my tube amplifier.

I've owned many a tube amplifier from hi-fi stereo to musical instrument versions. Never have I destroyed one in all my fussing and farting around with them. And for that matter the only, the absolute only problem I ever experienced with a tube amp was to an expensive McIntosh that decided to re-bias itself so the entire innards of the final tubes glowed orange! But that was an easy fix and then back to normal. The 3 solid state instrument amps I've had, all presented me with servicing them at least once! Only my Kustom solid state amp has held up faithfully over the many years. But I'd instantly trade it, along with Nigel & Audio Guru's souls, for a Marshall head!

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Only my Kustom solid state amp has held up faithfully over the many years. But I'd instantly trade it, along with Nigel & Audio Guru's souls, for a Marshall head!

Would that be a Marshall valve or transistor head?.

 

[GtarPlaya11]

Cabinet Switcher

OK. I have reread the marketing/sales pitch for the commercial product with a critical eye and I see now that they are cleverly disinforming (how surprising!). I am still slightly paranoid about this cabinet switching, mostly because it is done at a show and as any performer knows, it truly is unpleasant to have your equipment crap out on you and carrying complete backup systems is not practical. That being said, I am ready to give it a go, because I too have crapped around with this stuff and never had an amp failure. I have looked for a DPDT Relay and I see this one
"ELK-924 Sensitive Relay module features DPDT (Form "C") dry contacts for general purpose switching of devices or high current loads. It operates on 12 or 24 volts DC and can be triggered with a negative or positive input at an incredible low current of only 1 milliamp." This looks right to me, but I am still just a guitar player with a soldering iron...and a tube amp.

 

[HiTech]

TUBES, doood!

check out the clean construction: **broken link removed**


**broken link removed**

 

[GtarPlaya11]

Pretty sweet. I have to say, I don't love the 'Marshall Tone' I have a 100w TSL and it has been a bit cantankerous and, while it delivers power and crunch and all that..it is kind of one-dimensional. I AM liking the Mesa/Boogie power amp though.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

TUBES, doood!

check out the clean construction: **broken link removed**

Except there's no relation between the two pictures!.

From how clean the chassis picture is, presumably it's a modern amp built using old techniques? - to scam even more money from the customers!.

But Marshall are the classic rock/heavy metal amp - many people wouldn't use anything else. Personally I think such amps, and expensive guitars for that matter, are vastly over rated - a good guitarist makes anything sound good, lesser players buy the gear they see their heros using - but that's the way the world works, it's why companies sponser their users!.

 

[GtarPlaya11]

Cabinet Switcher

I have no idea how to proceed with this project. Is it as simple as buy the relay put some connectiors on it and Bob's My Uncle? I uploaded a picture of a really snappy relay I think is nice..should I buy it and go heat up the iron?
Thanks,

 

[GtarPlaya11]

This is a well designed site BTW - Kudos to whoever put it together.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I have no idea how to proceed with this project. Is it as simple as buy the relay put some connectiors on it and Bob's My Uncle? I uploaded a picture of a really snappy relay I think is nice..should I buy it and go heat up the iron?
Thanks,

That's two relays on a PCB - you only need one DPDT relay to switch between the two speakers. Once the contacts are wires correctly one speaker will work, in order to switch you energise the coil and the relay switches over - this occurs quite quickly (milliseconds), which is why it's not a problem.

 

[Sceadwian]

Not sure if you can still get them anywhere especially with ROHS attacking the electronics world, but mercury wetted relays are supposed to virtually eliminate contact bounce and provide very low loss contacts.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Not sure if you can still get them anywhere especially with ROHS attacking the electronics world, but mercury wetted relays are supposed to virtually eliminate contact bounce and provide very low loss contacts.

No need for speaker switching, a normal relay is perfectly fine.

 

[GtarPlaya11]

Cabinet Switcher

I am having trouble understanding how I switch a stereo pair thru the one switch. I sent a picture of what I am doing. Please bear with me and thanks.

as an aside - how do you edit or change the uploaded file associated with a post? I needed to edit the drawing and i lost my associated text in the process of 'managing' my uploads.

thx!

 

[HiTech]

Except there's no relation between the two pictures!. It was posted to show the typical construction behind most Marshall and other major brand instrument tube amps. You have to admit that it's a clean design and quite servicable.

From how clean the chassis picture is, presumably it's a modern amp built using old techniques? - to scam even more money from the customers!.
Scam? Not. I disagree with you there. People pay for the R&D behind the product as well as the reliability factor and probably for the respected name... just like they pay for the hood ornament on a Mercedez or Cadillac when other brands offer similar features/quality for less.

But Marshall are the classic rock/heavy metal amp - many people wouldn't use anything else. Personally I think such amps, and expensive guitars for that matter, are vastly over rated - a good guitarist makes anything sound good, lesser players buy the gear they see their heros using - but that's the way the world works, it's why companies sponser their users!.
While you are partially correct to some degree, often in life you get what you pay for. Better instruments incorporate finer materials, more accuracy, better tolerances, detailed construction, better QC, etc. Or at least they're supposed to as that's what the more famous brands have built their reputations upon. True, that a good musician can make most any quality instrument sound musical. However, the mindset of many budding musicians can be psychologically affected by both poor or good quality equipment.
When I started out in bicycle racing my first bike was a $100+ Gitane from France. It was an entry level racing model that seemed to work for me at the time. As I progressed and became better at the sport, my taste and need for better bikes escalated to the multi-thousand dollar models. I reached the peak point of my physical abilities and from there on the quality of the machine could give me another edge... hence the reason for expensive bikes. On the otherhand, my guitar skills are just average for an amateur and as much as I would love to drop a few thousand dollars on a LesPaul, I see it as an impractical use of money just to "look good". My '63 Strat was purchased many, many years ago for a mere $125 and it has gained a huge value over the years to nearly 50-75 times that amount. So in my case I can boast that I own a multi-thousand dollar guitar while only investing a mere $125 for it! So, now I look good, feel good, and sound fair!

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

It was posted to show the typical construction behind most Marshall and other major brand instrument tube amps. You have to admit that it's a clean design and quite servicable.

Except it's NOT typical construction - Marshall amps (and all others) have used PCB's for decades. It's just a marketing ploy to charge more money for exactly the same amp - PCB, tag board, tag strip, or even direct wiring, none of them affects the sound.

From a personal point of view, as I don't make PCB's, it's the sort of technique I'd use to build a valve amp - and from a servicing point of view it's often easier to repair, PCB versions are often difficult to work on due to the short wires etc.

I fully agree, it's a fine example of 1950's layout (and looks great) - but unfortunately it's not the 1950's any more!, and it's just extra expense for no advantage.

 

[GtarPlaya11]

Why is older better?

Except it's NOT typical construction - Marshall amps (and all others) have used PCB's for decades. It's just a marketing ploy to charge more money for exactly the same amp - PCB, tag board, tag strip, or even direct wiring, none of them affects the sound.

From a personal point of view, as I don't make PCB's, it's the sort of technique I'd use to build a valve amp - and from a servicing point of view it's often easier to repair, PCB versions are often difficult to work on due to the short wires etc.

I fully agree, it's a fine example of 1950's layout (and looks great) - but unfortunately it's not the 1950's any more!, and it's just extra expense for no advantage.

I had heard ,long ago, that the reason old Fender amps (real black-face amps, at the time) sounded better was because the components changed value over time and use and these subtle changes resulted in 'better' tone.
I have an ancient (1957) Fender Tweed Tremolux and it has awesome tone, so I can't readily disagree. It is also a logical reason why simply copying the original design does not result in the same quality of tone. Your Thoughts?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I had heard ,long ago, that the reason old Fender amps (real black-face amps, at the time) sounded better was because the components changed value over time and use and these subtle changes resulted in 'better' tone.
I have an ancient (1957) Fender Tweed Tremolux and it has awesome tone, so I can't readily disagree. It is also a logical reason why simply copying the original design does not result in the same quality of tone. Your Thoughts?

By far the biggest effect on the sound is the output transformer, and these have always been expensive. A lot of the 'tone' that people like is just low quality, high distortion and poor frequency response. In particular people like valve rectifiers, because they don't work very well and the supply droops, giving loads of extra distortion. As the older units age components go out of spec, electrolytics dry up and lower in value, resistors go high, capacitors go leaky, valves loose gain, all these sorts of things increase distortion and reduce frequency response - but people love them?.

Anyone ever noticed how valve guitar amps often have asymmetrical phase splitters?, loads of distortion before you start!.

 

[GtarPlaya11]

Completly true! I had replaced my 5U4GB (I think) with a solid-state rectifier -in the old Fender Tremolux - and I had to put the tube back in because it sounded 'sterile'. I put the tube back after a few gigs because the tone just wasn't 'there' anymore. The thing about tone that is very illusive are the 'meat/bite/sparkle' aspects. Really good tube amps (and I mean 'good' from the guitarists perspective) are not only about distortion but about getting the clean slight 'edge' to the note (maybe that IS Distortion but I perceive them differently..whatever). I have never heard a transistor amp get that sound and I have owned a few. Strange, but true, better ain't better (for me, anyway).

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Strange, but true, better ain't better (for me, anyway).

True for many guitar players - although a surprising number actually use transistor amps when recording!.

 

[GtarPlaya11]

I can't imagine why unless noise is a big concern. Old tube amps can get a bit sensitive to rheostats, flourescents, sketchy electric supplies, etc. Interestingly, the old PulTec EQ's, which are tube driven, are very popular for 'warming-up' otherwise digital recordings. On the flip side of this discussion, I had a Peavey BackStage 50 which was a tremendous transistor amp. It had a killer overdrive-distortion section. I never should have parted with it.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I can't imagine why unless noise is a big concern.

I would imagine because while you can add distortion and other effects during the mixing down process, you can't remove them - so it makes it much more difficult to get the sound you want.