wiring a relay ( dual) to operate 2 electromagnets

[garyd]

Yes they are both quite confusing and with my very limited knowledge of electronics I certainly have'nt got a clue , do you think that maybe some other kind of electrical forum might have people who know more about these 2 options ?.

 

[eTech]

Yes they are both quite confusing and with my very limited knowledge of electronics I certainly have'nt got a clue , do you think that maybe some other kind of electrical forum might have people who know more about these 2 options ?.

I agree with crutschow. But, bluntly, the documentation is poor and innaccurate.
The module you've chosen doesn't have the circuit flexibility to enable the connections needed. It has a solid state output that places restrictions on how it can be connected to external circuits. The module crutschow recommended has relay contacts for an output, so its very flexible.
The two timers will have to be cascaded such, that the output of the 5 sec timer module will need to trigger the 15 minute timer, when the 5 sec timer de-energizes (or expires).

 

[garyd]

Will this mean that the 2 timers will be incorporated into the circuit containing the 2 relay board before the +20 V is fed to the boards 2 normally open terminals and hence remove any chance of a relay remaining active for more than 5 seconds but restore +20V after 15 minutes ?.

 

[crutschow]

As I noted, the timer I referenced with the relay output, appears to allow the timing of both the on and off intervals, so that may be all you need.
The timer relay output would power your other module that controls the electromagnetics.

You can try another forum to find someone that may have experience with that module, but good luck with that.

 

[garyd]

So I presume that I would only need one ,is this correct ?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Yes they are both quite confusing and with my very limited knowledge of electronics I certainly have'nt got a clue , do you think that maybe some other kind of electrical forum might have people who know more about these 2 options ?.

You need a model train forum, not an electronics one - unless you can provide all the schematics for the various components concerned?.

 

[garyd]

I tried 2 of them and got bad advice on one and frankly dangerous and misleading advice on the other so I came here .

 

[eTech]

So I presume that I would only need one ,is this correct ?

No. You need two timer modules for each uncoupler coil.

 

[garyd]

Ok , I think i'll get them from China then as for 4 it will represent an appreciable saving , that will take time ie probably around 4 weeks but i'm not in a rush to get this done , I will come back when I have them and ask advice on how to wire them up , is that ok ?.

 

[eTech]

Meanwhile, can you test if you can reset the RL1 relay output by using the Mimic switch input?

For example, energize the Channel 1 output (however you do that). Then see if the output de-energizes when you touch +V or GND to the Mimic terminal.

However, proceed with caution, because there is nothing in the docs that state whether the mimic input terminal requires a +V or a GND input signal to operate.

Repeat the process to verify.

 

[crutschow]

No. You need two timer modules for each uncoupler coil.

Why do you say that when the timer appears to allow control of both the ON and OFF times?

 

[eTech]

Why do you say that when the timer appears to allow control of both the ON and OFF times?

Won't that make a astable multivibrator?

Otherwise, one short timer and one long timer. The short timer triggers on rise of DCC output, the long timer triggers on fall of short timer.

 

[garyd]

Meanwhile, can you test if you can reset the RL1 relay output by using the Mimic switch input?

For example, energize the Channel 1 output (however you do that). Then see if the output de-energizes when you touch +V or GND to the Mimic terminal.

However, proceed with caution, because there is nothing in the docs that state whether the mimic input terminal requires a +V or a GND input signal to operate.

Repeat the process to verify.

I think i'll contact the manufacturer of the RL1 and see what they say , it'll hopefully save me from melting anything lol.

 

[rjenkinsgb]

Consider one like this for each output?

Pardon our interruption...

Connect to the output switched power in "delay on" mode, set for the maximum time you want the solenoid coil to stay energised, then connect the normally closed contact in series with the solenoid, so the power is disconnected if it stays on for more than the set time.

 

[garyd]

I've already ordered the other ones ie these ,https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264122476260

 

[eTech]

I've already ordered the other ones ie these ,https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264122476260

Just giving a heads up…
That timer not the same as the one crutschow recommended. The one you ordered doesn’t look like it supports the needed voltage ranges.

 

[garyd]

Yes looking at it I can see your point , I think I need a definitive recommendation from all 3 of you as to which ones I should get ? i'm not too worried if the ones from China remain unused as they may have a place somewhere in the future as I have it mind to at some point to create an extension to the layout that will only be connected to my fathers one by 2 connecting tracks and they just may have a use there .

 

[crutschow]

Won't that make a astable multivibrator?

Not sure, but I think it can be configured to do just a single cycle per input trigger.

 

[crutschow]

I think I need a definitive recommendation from all 3 of you as to which ones I should get

You already have my recommendation.

 

[eTech]

So here's how I think the modules will be interconnected. If it can be reduced to using just one timer, that's great.
In the simulation below, the 15 minute timer duration is set to 10 seconds just to make the simulation quicker.