wiring a relay ( dual) to operate 2 electromagnets

[rjenkinsgb]

It only really needs a single timer, either a non-retriggerable pulse output which controls the load or a delay-on which disconnects the load after the time expires.

That does not allow for the 15 minute delay, but as it's only supposed to be a safety device it will do the job - if the control module never switches off due to a fault, the timer system / solenoid will never be retriggered anyway.

 

[garyd]

I think I should say that both of the time intervals are just approximations as until I have the complete circuit including timers/timer and the RL1 completed I cannot configure the automation software ( traincontroller Gold ) to connect to it via the creation of an "extended accessory address" within the software , it may turn out that the 5 second delay will not prove to be long enough to allow the software to position a Loco precisely and then issue a command to energise an uncoupler , I have done manual testing and concluded that 5 seconds should be adequate but it may require a little more or even a little less , as for the 15 minute delay ? well that was a figure I plucked out of the air to try and illustrate what I am trying to achieve , in short as long as the uncouplers can receive no power in between energising commands then the insurance against dangerous overheating of one or both uncouplers will have been achieved and lastly do please note that the 2 uncouplers will never be energised at the same time .

 

[garyd]

crutschow can you confirm that this is the board that you want me to get ? , https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193603103309?hash=item2d13a4ea4d:g:60cAAOSwcK5fIsK1 . can get this in about 3 days ,
if so ? i'll get 2 and we can then complete one circuit and if it turns out that we need 4 to do both uncouplers then i'll get 2 more if needed .

 

[crutschow]

crutschow can you confirm that this is the board that you want me to get

Yes, that appears to be identical to the one I referenced.

 

[garyd]

Thank you i'll get them ordered today and let you know when i've got them .

 

[garyd]

Hi to all who are still with me on this one , I have now received the relay/timer boards , I got 4 because there was a worthwhile discount if you purchased 4 or more .I will now need your advice as to how to wire them to the RL1 board, just one circuit ie one uncoupler as if everything works as hoped for I can just duplicate the circuit for the 2nd uncoupler .

 

[eTech]

Hi to all who are still with me on this one , I have now received the relay/timer boards , I got 4 because there was a worthwhile discount if you purchased 4 or more .I will now need your advice as to how to wire them to the RL1 board, just one circuit ie one uncoupler as if everything works as hoped for I can just duplicate the circuit for the 2nd uncoupler .

Did you find out if the RL1 output can be reset using the Mimic input?

Otherwise, wire as shown in post #40.
Timer #1 is 5 seconds (default). Set timer #2 for 15 seconds for testing purposes.

 

[garyd]

Hi eTech , I knew there was something else I had to do but having had a few quite hectic days recently it totally escaped my mind to ask about the RL1's output and the mimic input , I have just fired off an email to the manufacturer and put your question to them , as soon as I have reply i'll let you know what they say .In the meantime I will get on with moving some boards that control the layouts colour light and semaphore signals as they will be in the way of the 2 timer boards for the 1st uncoupler .

 

[garyd]

I now have a reply , boy !!! that was fast , here's the reply -
Thanks for your email.



Yes a Train-Tech Mimic switch can control the relay as well as a DCC command or input from a Train-Tech track sensor.



The Relay always acts on the last control it sees, so if it is set by a DCC command it can be overrides by a mimic switch afterwards. See page 4 of the manual for Mimic Switch details.

Regards



David



I'm giving the link to the DCC command stations operating manual as it may help to decide the wiring ,https://as.rumia.edu.pl/tt/dcc/Lenz/LZV100V36Manual.pdf , the only connections that I think are relevant here are the U and V which are power to the LZV100 and the J and K which are the DCC power and signal to the tracks .

 

[eTech]

I now have a reply , boy !!! that was fast , here's the reply -
Thanks for your email.



Yes a Train-Tech Mimic switch can control the relay as well as a DCC command or input from a Train-Tech track sensor.



The Relay always acts on the last control it sees, so if it is set by a DCC command it can be overrides by a mimic switch afterwards. See page 4 of the manual for Mimic Switch details.

Regards



David



I'm giving the link to the DCC command stations operating manual as it may help to decide the wiring ,https://as.rumia.edu.pl/tt/dcc/Lenz/LZV100V36Manual.pdf , the only connections that I think are relevant here are the U and V which are power to the LZV100 and the J and K which are the DCC power and signal to the tracks .

Not sure I understand the relevancy of the this to the RL1 other than the RL1 will be operating at 16-20v DC right?

So the way I understand this works (assume the RL1 internal relay is de-energized):
1. A DCC code is sent to the RL1. The internal relay energizes. and stays that way until a DCC command is received to de-energize it.
2. If the Mimic switch input is energized, the internal relay changes state (opposite of its current state).

Understanding how to reset the internal relay is critical, otherwise, the timers can get caught in a loop.

If the above is true, then the wiring I've shown should work.

A way around this it to make an simple edge detector for each of the trigger inputs. But that's only if the wiring I've shown doesn't work.

BTW- I have these timers (marked JZ-801 on back)

 

[garyd]

Point 1 = Yes the RL1 receives 20 V DC from a dedicated psu and the DCC commands to turn on or off , if turned on it by a DCC command it stays on until a further DCC command turns it off . Point 2 = yes . , there are markings on the back but they only show a mirror of what is on the front eg COM NO NC etc there is no JZ-801 anywhere on the boards .

 

[eTech]

Point 1 = Yes the RL1 receives 20 V DC from a dedicated psu and the DCC commands to turn on or off , if turned on it by a DCC command it stays on until a further DCC command turns it off . Point 2 = yes . , there are markings on the back but they only show a mirror of what is on the front eg COM NO NC etc there is no JZ-801 anywhere on the boards .

If you ordered the one linked back on #43 then its the same as one I have.

 

[garyd]

Yes it's the same one as the link I gave in 43 .

 

[garyd]

I'm having a problem understanding the wiring diagram given in #40 , the diagram shows the DCC command station ie the Lenz LZV 100 as only having one DCC output wire wheras in reality it has 2 ie the J and K terminals it also shows a +DC connection and GND connection but the command station does'nt have those ?.

 

[eTech]

I'm having a problem understanding the wiring diagram given in #40 , the diagram shows the DCC command station ie the Lenz LZV 100 as only having one DCC output wire wheras in reality it has 2 ie the J and K terminals it also shows a +DC connection and GND connection but the command station does'nt have those ?.

The "DCC Generator" block on the diagram wasn't intended to represent any specific DCC command station. Its just a device that sends DCC commands.

The RL1 manual states:

"To assign an accessory address to each of your Relays connect the RL1 to the standard DCC
track power output, set your DCC controller to Accessory control mode and turn on DCC power."

I think that means the RL1 DCC/DC input terminals would connect to the J/K terminals of the DCC command station.
Normally, this connection would be made via the track rails.

I've updated post #40 to show this, BUT.....

It also states:

*NB Note that a few DCC controllers are not able to control DCC accessories, including the basic
Bachmann EZ command controller supplied in some Bachmann train sets and the Gaugemaster
Prodigy Express, both of which can only control DCC Locos. Refer to your controller instructions."

I don't know if your DCC, Lenz LZV 100, unit fits this category.

So you need to check both of the above with the manufacturers before proceeding....

 

[garyd]

Ah right , I already have the RL1 connected to the command stations track (J/K) outputs and have it addressed so that uncouplers 1 and 2 have the addresses 17 and 18 respectively and i can energise either relay by simply issuing a switching command using the handset , later on the automation software will do this according to how I configure it .I have both uncouplers wired in and both operate succesfully via the handset , my DCC system is Lenz and they are the inventors of DCC so are fully compliant with all of the protocols that have grown up around DCC. The command station is powered by a Lenz transformer -- https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/26150-tr150-transformer-15v-70va-413-p.asp , and is set to output 14 V DCC , you can vary the output voltage to suit different model railway scales and 14 volts is recommended for N gauge . ( i'm including this info so you know exactly what you are dealing with ) .I think I pretty much have it now so i'll get the boards mounted and then get on with the wiring , lastly can I check that you want an 1N4004 Diode across the uncouplers ? .

 

[eTech]

lastly can I check that you want an 1N4004 Diode across the uncouplers ? .

Yes...across the coil to surpress EMF. The diode usually has a black body with a silver band. The (+) side would be the connected to the "silver band" (or cathode) end of the diode.

 

[garyd]

OK , I've mounted the 2 timer boards and will leave it overnight for the glue to dry on the standoffs that i've used to mount the boards and then tomorrow i'll try and get the wiring done on the 1st uncoupler circuit , i'll let you know when I think i've done .

 

[eTech]

The command station is powered by a Lenz transformer -- https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/26150-tr150-transformer-15v-70va-413-p.asp , and is set to output 14 V DCC , you can vary the output voltage to suit different model railway scales and 14 volts is recommended for N gauge . ( i'm including this info so you know exactly what you are dealing with ) .

The mimic input pin will source the same voltage supply as the EM coil.
Does that mean the DC supply powering the EM coil is changing to 14v? or staying at 20v?

 

[garyd]

It's staying at 20 volts as 14 volts would'nt be enough , I only gave you the DCC voltage from the command station in case you needed to be aware of it .