wiring a relay ( dual) to operate 2 electromagnets

garyd said:

It's staying at 20 volts as 14 volts would'nt be enough , I only gave you the DCC voltage from the command station in case you needed to be aware of it .

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OK. So here is the wiring diagram revised based on the new information you've provided.
I've included the transformer and revised the DCC block.

A quick question , you show at the extreme right of the circuit what I assume is an on/off switch ? labelled V1 is it needed ? and if so should it be latching or momentary ?.

garyd said:

A quick question , you show at the extreme right of the circuit what I assume is an on/off switch ? labelled V1 is it needed ? and if so should it be latching or momentary ?.

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That is not a switch. Its your 20v power supply.

Ah , thank you I was wondering where that came into it lol, I should be ok now .

garyd said:

Ah , thank you I was wondering where that came into it lol, I should be ok now .

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A question for your DCC folks.

We need to have a "common" ground connection between the 20v power supply and the RL1 "Mimic" terminal, so that the reset function will work.
I think we can use the DCC "common" terminal, "_|_" (looks like an upsidedown "T" ), for this purpose. Can you ask about this?

i'll email the RL1 makers and see what they say , in the meanwhile there is this "A fifth connection labeled ‘⊥‘ on the power plug is the power station ground. This connection can be used in some wiring schemes to form a common between power stations " this comes from the command stations manual .

garyd said:

in the meanwhile there is this "A fifth connection labeled ‘⊥‘ on the power plug is the power station ground.

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Yes...that's the one I was referring to. I think we'll need to have a connection from ground on your 20v power supply to the ‘⊥‘ terminal on the DCC Command Center.

When you say "ground" do you mean the 20V psu's negative wire ? and also do you want me to email the RL1's makers and put your question to them

garyd said:

When you say "ground" do you mean the 20V psu's negative wire ? and also do you want me to email the RL1's makers and put your question to them

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If your power supply only has two terminals (+ and -) ....Yes to both questions...

yes it has just 2 wires , a centre insulated one which is positive and an outer braided one which is negative , email duly sent .

I have an answer to the email but i'm afraid it does not look promising , there's a link to other boards but i'm excluding that as it's interfering with copy/pasting "
The Mimic switch input is not merely an on off level but a bidirectional data line intended to work specifically with our Train-Tech Mimic switches. This is not to make it difficult for experimenters but the single wire not only reports to the relay the position of the mimic switch but also receives the status of the relay and lights LEDs. We could not do this if it was a single connection. I would not recommend you connect anything to this input other than Train-Tech products designed to communicate on this low voltage bus or you could damage your relay and/or your DCC control system.



I think i would tackle it by taking one of the relay contact outputs and delaying that, rather than try and delaying an input. Thats safe and relatively easy either using your own delay electronics or if you want something ready made I just had a quick look and their are boards like below which I think you could trigger from the RL1 " "
I hope that helps.

As I said we are not against experimentation but need to make our products ‘just plug and play’ so its not always easy to make them do something different, but as long as you use the relay contacts you should be safe.



Kind Regards



David "

garyd said:

I have an answer to the email but i'm afraid it does not look promising , there's a link to other boards but i'm excluding that as it's interfering with copy/pasting "
The Mimic switch input is not merely an on off level but a bidirectional data line intended to work specifically with our Train-Tech Mimic switches. This is not to make it difficult for experimenters but the single wire not only reports to the relay the position of the mimic switch but also receives the status of the relay and lights LEDs. We could not do this if it was a single connection. I would not recommend you connect anything to this input other than Train-Tech products designed to communicate on this low voltage bus or you could damage your relay and/or your DCC control system.



I think i would tackle it by taking one of the relay contact outputs and delaying that, rather than try and delaying an input. Thats safe and relatively easy either using your own delay electronics or if you want something ready made I just had a quick look and their are boards like below which I think you could trigger from the RL1 " "
I hope that helps.

As I said we are not against experimentation but need to make our products ‘just plug and play’ so its not always easy to make them do something different, but as long as you use the relay contacts you should be safe.



Kind Regards



David "

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OK...here's a way to get around using a "reset". See circuit below.

I've modified the wiring so that when the RL1 output energizes, it will produce a "pulse" to trigger timer #1.
It does require adding one capacitor and one resistor.

R1 and C1 forms a "tiny storage battery". When the RL1 relay is de-energized, C1 is charged up to 20v. When the RL1 relay energizes, the stored energy in C1 is discharged thru the input of Timer #1. This triggers the 5s timing cycle. When the 5s cycle expires, Timer #2 triggers and opens the circuit to the EM coil for 15 minutes. When the 15 minute cycle expires, the circuit is ready for another cycle. Timer #1 can't trigger again until its relay has been de-energized (to recharge C1), and then energized again to trigger the timer.

BTW-It still may be possible to use one timer if the timer can be set to energize for 5 seconds, and then ignore any subsequent triggers for 15 minutes afterwards.

I think I understand what you are doing reasonably well and I can certainly follow the diagram now i'm getting more used to reading them , dad had loads of resistors but i'd have to look up their values as the majority are not labelled and I have one Capacitor which is marked 1000 uf at 50 Volts , let me know the values you want to use and i'll order them if I need to . i'm not against using 2 timers as I have 4 of them that may as well be used .

garyd said:

I think I understand what you are doing reasonably well and I can certainly follow the diagram now i'm getting more used to reading them , dad had loads of resistors but i'd have to look up their values as the majority are not labelled and I have one Capacitor which is marked 1000 uf at 50 Volts , let me know the values you want to use and i'll order them if I need to . i'm not against using 2 timers as I have 4 of them that may as well be used .

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The resistor can be 100 ohms, 0.5 or 0.25 watt, 5%, carbon composition (very common).
For the capacitor, we'll need a 1 uf (uf=microfarad), 35v min, electrolytic or tantalum. When connecting the cap, be aware of the polarity markings (if any). If connected reversed polarity they can pop like a firecracker...lol.

I have the resistors but needed to order the capacitors 1uf at 50 volts was the nearest I could find on ebay .should have them by wednesday .

garyd said:

I have the resistors but needed to order the capacitors 1uf at 50 volts was the nearest I could find on ebay .should have them by wednesday .

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Cool...

Hi , i'm sorry for the delay but i'm still waiting on the Capacitors from Rapid who are proving to be anything but Rapid , they won't be seeing my custom again ,i'll post again when I have anything to report .

Hi , well I have good news mostly I think , my dads friend found a Capacitor of the same value that I ordered from not so rapid at his model railway club and I now have one uncoupler and it's 3 boards wired up and there was no emmission of blue smoke and I can see nothing untoward , the RL1 is working via the Lenz handset but the uncoupler is not but I think that this is quite likely due to the 2 timer boards being in need of setup , they are both lit up and I think i've managed to set the number one board at 5 seconds as it now has a solid led lit up on it and this I think was more by luck than judgement but for the life of me I cannot get the number two board set up with 15 seconds , the instructions for setup are mind bogglingly confusing , do any of you have even a clue as to the sequence for setting one of these up ?.

After struggling with the language and some testing, here are instructions for setting up the timer.
The first time should be set for 5 seconds and the second timer for 15 seconds just for testing.
Read thru the entire instructions before using them.

How to view and set parameters for the:
Shenzhen, Adjustable 6-30V DC 12V 24V Time Delay Relay Module XY-J02

For the following instructions:
A "long" button press = Press and hold the button for 2 seconds, then release the button.
A "short" button press = Press and quickly release the button.

When using up and down keys:
A long press will rapidly scroll through all the values
A short press will step through each value one at a time

1.0 POWER ON MODULE.
The current mode will blink: P1.1
followed by a steady lit current running time: 000

2.0 TO DISPLAY THE MODE:

2.1 Long press the "set" button.
The current operating mode will display: P1.1

3.1 TO SET THE MODE:
3.2 Short press the "up" or "down" button to step thru the modes.
3.3 When the desired mode is displayed, short press the "set" button.
The current time cycle will blink: OP
quickly followed by a blinking current "OP" time setting: 005.

4.0 TO SET THE OP TIME:
4.1 With the blinking current "OP" time setting displayed: 005.
Short or long press the "up" or "down" buttons to scroll thru the values.
Scroll thru the values until "015." (15 seconds) is displayed.
4.2 When "015." is displayed. Check the position of the "decimal point".
The decimal point indicates the time range in seconds.
The timing ranges in seconds are:
000. =000-999
00.0 =00.0-99.9
0.00 =0.00-9.99
.000 =.000-.999
4.4 If necessary, short press the stop button to move the position of the decimal point
so the timing range is "000.".

4.5 Short press the "set" key to select "015." seconds.
The current time cycle will blink: OP
quickly followed by a blinking current "OP" time setting: 015.

5.0 TO ACCEPT THE CURRENT SETTINGS:
5.1 Long press the set button.
The current operating mode will blink: P1.1
followed by the current running time: "000"
The timer is now ready to operate with the current settings.

The above procedure can be used to select different operating modes, timing values, etc.

Hi , you've done an incredible job of translating gobbledegook into English and I take my hat off to you , however i'm still having a problem knowing what modes are to be used in the setup process ie when I scroll through the modes I get offered 5 ie P-2 or P-4 or P1.1 or P1.2 or P1.3 and I don't have a clue as to which is the right one ?.