Worldwide lighting made 20% more efficienct.

[Flyback]

put my money on them never making it past the first 5 years of life before going under

...surely you forget that isotera isnt just about lighting, its about HFAC contactless power transfer.....and isotera has 200W and 500W power hubs for the mass market for this purpose...........can you honestly say that there is no earthly use for HFAC contactless power transfer technology?.....if you do say that, then that is a very bold and sweeping statement.

The fact is that people who buy lighting systems for companies are not going to be paying for the maintenance of those lighting fixtures.........when an electrician is needed, they dont have to pay...therefore, most places never bother looking into things like isotera.....as soon as those who pay find out how there money is being wasted , they will be lapping up isotera.

What you should do is suggest different ways by which the leds of isotera could be dimmed. You should come up with a method for extracting a variable led current from the iBus without causing oscillations in the power hub. Rather than coming up with criticism.

 

[kubeek]

The fact is that people who buy lighting systems for companies are not going to be paying for the maintenance of those lighting fixtures.........when an electrician is needed, they dont have to pay...therefore, most places never bother looking into things like isotera.....as soon as those who pay find out how there money is being wasted , they will be lapping up isotera.

How often do you need an electrician to do work on your lights? I´d say once, and that is when the ligths were installed. I see no reason why a functional installation should need any service within say 20 years from being put in.
You just need to change the bulbs, and that is the same thing with every system and no electrician is needed.

 

[Flyback]

What you should do is suggest different ways by which the leds of isotera could be dimmed. You should come up with a method for extracting a variable led current from the iBus without causing oscillations in the power hub. Rather than coming up with criticism.

Maybe no-one knows how to make a variable current coupler for the isotera system?...it is a brilliant thing thats done, anyone like to guess how its done?......you have to couple into the 50KHz sinewave and your secondary current isnt just a fixed Ip*NP/NS but is variable as you please due to a special way of shorting out the secondary of the coupler..........and this is done without causing oscillations in the power hub.....so perhaps many here will come up with a better way of doing this dimming?

 

[kubeek]

Please stop deleting the author from the quotes, it gets very confusing.

 

[tcmtech]

...surely you forget that isotera isnt just about lighting, its about HFAC contactless power transfer.....and isotera has 200W and 500W power hubs for the mass market for this purpose...........can you honestly say that there is no earthly use for HFAC contactless power transfer technology?.....if you do say that, then that is a very bold and sweeping statement.

I never said anything like it. However you seem to be stuck on thinking that 200 - 500 watts is a lot of power. As I have mentioned a number of times in commercial and industrial setting it's common to have every single fixture running 500+ watts each and in very large facilities there can be hundreds of individual fixtures running that much power each adding up to lighting power loads measured in the 100's of thousands of watts for just one building.

You seem to be proclaiming this to be the next great lighting tech yet so far non of their numbers suggest anything remotely like that. They have a neat little concept for specialty niche applications and nothing more.

Maybe no-one knows how to make a variable current coupler for the isotera system?...it is a brilliant thing thats done, anyone like to guess how its done?......you have to couple into the 50KHz sinewave and your secondary current isnt just a fixed Ip*NP/NS but is variable as you please due to a special way of shorting out the secondary of the coupler..........and this is done without causing oscillations in the power hub.....so perhaps many here will come up with a better way of doing this dimming?

If its such a great technology why do you expect us to refine it into something that is practical and useful for them for free?

 

[Flyback]

They have a neat little concept for specialty niche applications and nothing more

This is why isotera is useful...
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/mil-spec-circular-connectors/2411272/

.....thats a £40 connector and only one half of it...........use isotera and you dont need these connectors at all...because its contactless

...think of the thousands of companies and applications that use these types of connectors, and thats isotera's market for sure.

And isotera have come up with a cheap way to dim the leds, using obviously pulsing on and off of the secondary of the coupler...and this is done without causing oscillations in the power hub, this will extend the market.

Im surprised no-one noticed that to dim it you cant just short the secondary any old how, you need to use the special cheap-but-effective way that isotera uses.

 

[ronv]

Speaking of cost...... Bet you can't say how much a coupler costs. Or even the Isotera twisted pair. Or any of it for that matter.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

I also don't see the advantage of the iSotera setup. An installer still has to mount the thing and the light fixture. A cheap crimp & tap connector could do the same thing on standard wiring.

I wonder if their investors will ever see a dime.

 

[Flyback]

The coupler is just a bit of ferrite , with some cheap components around it.....the best part is when you hold a shower head to the lamp....and that lamp goes out whilst the shower water drizzles on it, but all other lamps on the bus stay lit.....and the one youre showering onto, re-lights as soon as you turn the shower water off..

....usually waterproof lighting enclosures are needed for this with non isotera lights...and because they are sealed , the lights overheat....but not isotera ones

 

[tcmtech]

And isotera have come up with a cheap way to dim the leds, using obviously pulsing on and off of the secondary of the coupler...and this is done without causing oscillations in the power hub, this will extend the market

But there literature shows them being set up as a whole house system using one power supply.

How does that work if I want ot only dim one set of lights and not all of them? Also how is the unit being remotely controlled to tell it to dim?

As far as your connector goes I have no idea what that has to do with anything. It's a specialty application device where as my standard 2 or 3 prong plugs cost me around $2 at the local hardware store and I can use them with any power socket anywhere.

I have to side with ronv as well that you have yet to ever give any links or info on what their systems cost. Individual parts or whole system wise. Without a cost per item comparison of their products to anything else it's pointless and weak reasoning.

In the end the thing is no one here has any understanding of why you are so fixated on these Isotera systems. Right from the get go every reason you have had to support them has failed to add up or justify much of anything other than they are a limited application and use system that can not work as a direct replacement for the vast vast majority of the world lighting systems that are now in place and built to standardized formats that fit very well in the mass market targets.

Your numbers never added up, your reasonings are easily proven to be incomplete or outright wrong, and so far you have absolutely no one who supports any of your reasonings or justification of the systems in general.

So whats the deal here? Why the unrealistic and irrationals fixation on this particular product and obviously blatant exaggerations of its present capabilities? Are you not taking medication you should be taking?

 

[blueroomelectronics]

The couplers have an RJ11 for local control. Yet more permanent wiring.

 

[tcmtech]

The coupler is just a bit of ferrite , with some cheap components around it....

The coupler you linked to is material wize even less than that yet they want how much for it and it's just some molded plastic with two pieces of stamp formed brass which is even easier and cheaper to make than a ferrite core assy.

If you ever worked with electronics you would very well know that what goes into making a part has nothing to do with the final price of it when it hits the market.

 

[ChrisP58]

This is why isotera is useful...
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/mil-spec-circular-connectors/2411272/

.....thats a £40 connector and only one half of it...........use isotera and you dont need these connectors at all...because its contactless

...think of the thousands of companies and applications that use these types of connectors, and thats isotera's market for sure.

What did you do? Search out the most expensive connector you could find? I doubt that any good engineer would choose that connector for distribution of power in a common commercial application. It's just way over-engineered for for mass market use. And can you imagine having to solder every wire to each pin? Ridiculous.

When somebody tries to convince me that they have a great product by making such ill fitting comparisons, I have to ask my self if he really understands what he is trying to sell, or at least the market he is trying to sell it into.

That, or he is trying to make a mediocre product look better than it's own capabilities can support.

 

[johansen]

well with the dod funding this nonsense that certainly explains how you can justify 10 grams of ferrite per watt of power output.

also, contactors for dc have to be expensive because everyone makes them so incredibly cheap otherwise.

here's a 35 amp 277vac contactor:

 

[tcmtech]

When somebody tries to convince me that they have a great product by making such ill fitting comparisons, I have to ask my self if he really understands what he is trying to sell, or at least the market he is trying to sell it into.

That, or he is trying to make a mediocre product look better than it's own capabilities can support.

I think it's rather obvious it's a case of all of the above and more. The product has yet to be fully refined let alone in service field tested plus the OP...... well if you read anything he has stated, compared things to, or rationalized this whole concept with it should be rather obvious he has little to no real life experience in any of the areas of industry or application that he is claiming this system to be supposedly ideally suited for.

(The claim that it would be great for charging EV's with it was the over the top 'WTF seriously now?' one for me.)

 

[Flyback]

Well,

Let me introduce you to “Jack” the electrician. There are thousands of electricians like Jack
And let me introduce you to “Rupert”. Rupert is a cash-rich, time-poor guy who often needs to put lighting (whether temporary or more permanent) into various buildings that are part of his businesses.

Rupert is terrified of Jack. Jack always overcharges Rupert. When Jack is asked to quote the maximum time a lighting wiring job will take, Jack always takes exactly that time, even if it appears that he could have finished much sooner.
-And Rupert has to sit there “babysitting” Jack whilst Jack works, meaning Rupert’s precious time is taken up. Rupert is worried that Jack might steal something whilst he works in Ruperts properties. Rupert is worried that Jack might notice nice things in Ruperts properties, and maybe Jack will go down the local pub or bar, and tell his mates about the “nice things” that he saw in Rupert’s house….maybe one of Jack’s mates will come and break in to Rupert’s property and steal what Jack told him about. Rupert has expensive jewellery and items in some places in his rooms, and Jack might see such wealth when he comes round to deliver the quotation, and on seeing such wealth, will decide that Rupert can pay a lot of money, and will charge Rupert a lot of money…..Rupert has to spend ages hiding all the jewellery and nice furniture so that Jack doesn’t think he’s too wealthy when he comes round.…..Rupert hasn’t got a clue what Jack’s job involves, and though he pretends as best as he can, he hasn’t a clue whether or not Jack is charging a fair price.
Rupert is rich. –But Rupert doesn’t like being ripped off….that’s partly why he’s rich now.

Mains wiring is dangerous, and Rupert hasn’t a clue how to do it safely. If he tried it himself he could electrocute himself, or somebody else. In many countries, Rupert isn’t even allowed to do mains wiring himself….he must find a “Jack” to do it for him.

But Rupert hasn’t got a clue whether or not Jack has done a job properly, or whether Jack has taken terrible short cuts.

Rupert would like a lighting system that he can put up himself …easily.

Rupert has two choices, since he obviously wishes to start from the mains, or a mains generator…...

1..Mains to 24VDC.
2..Isotera.

If Rupert chooses “Mains to 24VDC”, then he needs to have a 24VDC power hub…..he can then have a long bus with connectors hanging off it every two yards or so……He then has to hope that the connectors will all line up exactly where he wants the lights to go………also, some of the connectors may not be used, and will be open contacts into which dirt and grime can collect…and water can get in and short the bus out, meaning that all the lights go out.

So, instead Rupert can choose “Mains to 24VDC” and have a 24VDC power hub, with say ten paralleled connectors on its output……each connector will need strain relief….that’s a nuisance , because Rupert doesn’t know what “Strain Relief” is (isn’t that what happens when he takes one of the secretaries out for dinner?)

Rupert doesn’t want to know what “strain relief “ is.

Once Rupert spent hours reading about “connectors”, and “series connection” , “parallel connection”, “strain relief”, “wire gauges”, “Voltage” , “current” etc etc…but two weeks later, he had forgotten all of what he read. He won’t bother trying again.

So anyway, with the ten or so paralleled output connectors and the 24VDC. He has to take wires from each connector to each lamp……so its “star connection”, and involves a lot of wire……..its thick wire too because at such a low voltage, the current is relatively high. When he’s finished with all the lengths of wire, he probably can’t re-use them because they won’t be the right size for the next job…..different wire lengths will need to be cut, and connectors etc will need connecting to each new wire length. Rupert hates “connectors”…there are millions of them….and each have such confusing specs.

With isotera, Rupert can re-use the bus. He can “clip” lights to anywhere along the bus, and needs no connectors.
All in all, the isotera system is Ruperts best choice.

Sometimes the isotera ibus may not be quite long enough to go where every single lamp is needed, but for those few cases he can always have a few lengths of wire from the icoupler to the lamp, and do a bit of “stretching” there…..nothing too complex.

There is a connector on the output of the icoupler……but its not like one of the ten connectors at the output of the 24vdc power hub that needs strain relief etc etc…..in fact, Rupert need never disconnect that connector if he so chooses.

Please be aware that not all the general public have the knowledge of the readers of this post. Some are down right confused by wires and connectors, etc etc.

These people want isotera…..but probably don’t even know it exists.

Jack will not tell Rupert about isotera…..i wonder why?

 

[tvtech]

Interesting post.

LOL Flyback....you are REALLY pissed off.

Sit down. Gasp some fresh Night air. And cool off. And resolve to work your anger/issues out in the Morning

You have absolutely no idea how many times I have practised this in the situation I am in here. I deal with ABSOLUTE stupidity DAILY.

Regards,
tvtech

 

[tvtech]

Another thing Flyback..

Most of us here can understand more of your situation better than other Forums out there.

Just saying

tvtech

 

[blueroomelectronics]

I still have no idea what Flyback does or whom he represents. I originally thought he was a student and his "manager" would drop strange and odd parts on his desk awaiting his feedback. Then I though he was very poorly trying to clone some sort of emergency lighting systems using a ill suited ARM CPU. There was an odd NiCAD thread, then the one I buggered up with no turn transformer couplings. Then Flyback stated they had a grant to <cough> research iSotera. Now it's how 20% PFC power supply is part of the greatest lighting system ever.

Who are you Flyback, what do you do? My guess is Belgium for location, but job description I've no idea.

 

[tcmtech]

Amature troll in training?

Moderately functional mentally impaired person?

Shut in?

Highly advanced babble bot engine?

Neural Chemically imbalanced salesperson?

brownout under a new name and on better meds?

Ignorant tree hugger on a mission with incomplete facts and data?

Al Gore?

One or more combinations of the above?