Is There an Engineering Type: what is your experience?

My 2 cents

(01) Some sleep problems, especially when a particular job is not going well. Y
(02) Worrier. Y
(03) Hay-fever and general allergies. N
(04) Migraine. N
(05) Left handed. N, but right-brained
(06) Dyslexic. N
(07) Difficult spelling. N
(08) Uneasy punctuation and grammar. N
(09) Difficult second languages. Y
(10) Pedantic or perhaps particular is a better word. Y
(11) Think that females are generally logical and that all males are logical. ?
(12) Hoarder. Y
(13) Fond of animals, Y
(14) Inquisitive. Y
(15) Industrious. Y
(16) Inventive. Y
(17) Independent. Y
(18) Self motivated. Y
(19) Good sense of humour. Y
(20) Have electronics bench/workshop at home. Y
(21) Quiet and considered to be different. Y
(22) Limited emotion. Y
(23) Strong willed. N
(24) Imaginative. Y
(25) Illegible handwriting. Y
(26) Bitter about being overlooked/ falsely wronged by management. Y
(27) Great satisfaction from creating something. Y
(28) Enjoy own company. Y

gophert said:

After I wrote that, I started thinking about how many people I offended.

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you didn't offend me; your observations (or you kids' observations) are spot on.

There's a whole 'nother discussion in the background on nature vs. nurture but I don't want to drag the discussion in that direction. I'll just state my boiled down opinion : we are the product of our individual experiences, but for the most part we are in control. For the most part, we are at liberty to choose how we let our experiences dictate our lives. Childhood experiences take a deeper root than those gained in adulthood.

For the bulk of my formative years I was a shut-in. I didn't even get those co-op homeshcooler's sporting activities mentioned earlier. It was me, my mom, my younger brother, and 2 younger sisters. We occasionally got to play with the neighborhood kids, but to a limited extent (my parents were religious fanatics and didn't want us being "corrupted" by the "heathens" of the outside world). I didn't get those social "rules" implanted on a primal level.

If I were a victim of my upbringing I would be a recluse. But instead rose above my perceived "limitations" and I taught myself how to cohabitate. I taught myself how to interface and appear normal. Being social does not come naturally to me, but I can very convincingly force it when and where, and to whatever extent I need to, to be a functional member of society. I would however prefer to be alone. My forum activity fills any primal "need" for social interaction, and anything outside of that is just to meet the bare minimum that society expects of me. I might be able to change that if I were to find a group of like-minded people in the real world, but honestly i haven't sought out such a group because I don't really crave it.

it will be interesting to see results chart!

strantor said:

you didn't offend me; your observations (or you kids' observations) are spot on.

There's a whole 'nother discussion in the background on nature vs. nurture but I don't want to drag the discussion in that direction. I'll just state my boiled down opinion : we are the product of our individual experiences, but for the most part we are in control. For the most part, we are at liberty to choose how we let our experiences dictate our lives. Childhood experiences take a deeper root than those gained in adulthood.

For the bulk of my formative years I was a shut-in. I didn't even get those co-op homeshcooler's sporting activities mentioned earlier. It was me, my mom, my younger brother, and 2 younger sisters. We occasionally got to play with the neighborhood kids, but to a limited extent (my parents were religious fanatics and didn't want us being "corrupted" by the "heathens" of the outside world). I didn't get those social "rules" implanted on a primal level.

If I were a victim of my upbringing I would be a recluse. But instead rose above my perceived "limitations" and I taught myself how to cohabitate. I taught myself how to interface and appear normal. Being social does not come naturally to me, but I can very convincingly force it when and where, and to whatever extent I need to, to be a functional member of society. I would however prefer to be alone. My forum activity fills any primal "need" for social interaction, and anything outside of that is just to meet the bare minimum that society expects of me. I might be able to change that if I were to find a group of like-minded people in the real world, but honestly i haven't sought out such a group because I don't really crave it.

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Hell, that is an interesting description stranator. It almost fits the mould perfectly- if you don't mind me saying so. This may sound presumptuous, but you are lucky; it seems that there is nothing organic that is causing any kind of problem. I just don't think you have met the right people, and are possibly not happy with your environment. In general, you have not found your place in the world yet. Hate to keep repeating this, but I was exactly the same and have dealt with others the same too.

spec

Spec,

Do you think your military experience helped or hindered you?

Personally, interacting with the whole spectrum of society changes one. We always imitated what we saw as good and right.

Even poor leadership is a fine example .... Of what not to emulate.

I told a few they were a fine example. When my charges questioned my sanity, I reminded them of my previous sentence.

i was rereading this thread, and had a different perspective of question #9. Was that supposed to be "difficulty"? or not... And second language, does it refer to second spoken/written human language or a coding language. Because my answer might change

djsfantasi said:

i was rereading this thread, and had a different perspective of question #9. Was that supposed to be "difficulty"? or not... And second language, does it refer to second spoken/written human language or a coding language. Because my answer might change

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I got really lucky that my school changed the foreign language requirement to "second language" requirement. We were allowed to use a programming language to fill the requirement. Then the liberal arts side of the school complained that nobody would be taking foreign language classes. Then the students complained that the only reason it was a requirement was because the foreign language departments needed students. Then, the whole language requirement was dropped.

JoeJester said:

Spec,

Do you think your military experience helped or hindered you?

Personally, interacting with the whole spectrum of society changes one. We always imitated what we saw as good and right.

Even poor leadership is a fine example .... Of what not to emulate.

I told a few they were a fine example. When my charges questioned my sanity, I reminded them of my previous sentence.

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Hy Joe,

My military experience helped me beyond recognition, in every way possible and taught me an awful lot:

(1) Resolve: if you didn't do something right you got a kick up the arse, or spent the evening peeling spuds in the mess.

(2) Co-ordination: with my lack of rhythm/beat I didn't think I would ever be able to march. Not only did I learn to march well, but I was also in the drill team doing public exhibitions, swinging a rifle around and all that stuff.

(4) Discipline: Before joining up, it was unusual for me to keep regular hours and I was always late for appointments. But in the RAF, for three years every day, apart from Sundays, we had to be up at 6:30am get the billet ready for inspection. We also had to strip our beds and make a bed pack, leave all our lockers open so that every item could be inspected. We then had breakfast before being on parade at 8am to be inspected.

Friday night was bull night and the billet and all your kit had to be laid out for a megga inspection on Saturday morning while we were on the parade ground for inspection and a couple of hour’s drill. Any slight deficiencies, either personal or bunk, and you didn’t go off base Saturday night.


(5) Security: One of the reasons why I joined up was to get away from home; My Mum just did not get on with my Dad and she was always rowing, and if not there was always the worry that she would start up at any moment. There were 150 of us who joined up in the same Entry and they all complained about the bull and uncomfortable beds and all that stuff. Not me, I thought it was great compared to home. Another guy who thought the same came from an orphanage.

(6) Education, General, Technical and Physical. The training was simply first rate.

(7) The service also taught me that there was hope for even the most disadvantaged. I know it is an old chestnut, but it was amazing how the most hopeless kid, full of self-doubt and a total wimp, was transformed into a man by the service.

There was also the other side though, the main one being that you were isolated from the outside world and did not have to think about everyday things. Also, some of those with rank were either bastards or idiots. But, on the whole, I appreciated the comradeship of my fellow erks and admired and respected those in authority, both non-commissioned and commissioned.

But, I found the life was not for me, mainly because the RAF servicing policy changed from detailed fault-finding to black box changing. I really was a designer at heart anyway. So I left the service after 5 years and joined civvy street. That was a strange experience after the RAF.

spec

djsfantasi said:

i was rereading this thread, and had a different perspective of question #9. Was that supposed to be "difficulty"? or not... And second language, does it refer to second spoken/written human language or a coding language. Because my answer might change

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Hy djs,

It is meant to refer to another natural language: French, Spanish, Italian, etc. What this is driving at is that, although Eng types are good at logical things, they are not necessarily that good with language- for example I had enough bother with English, but some of the girls at our school were quite skilled with foreign languages and took to learning them the way that I did science, maths, and metalwork.

We had a secretary at work who wasn't an academic but she could speak fluent Spanish after only being on holiday in Spain five times.

spec

spec said:

Hy dis,

It is meant to refer to another natural language: French, Spanish, Italian, etc. What this is driving at is that, although Eng types are good at logical things, they are not necessarily that good with language- for example I had enough bother with English, but some of the girls at our school were quite skilled with foreign languages and took to learning them the way that I did science, maths, and metalwork.

We had a secretary at work who wasn't an academic but she could speak fluent Spanish after only being on holiday in Spain five times.

spec

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I'm not good at a second natural language, but quite fluent in English (writing). And pick up a new coding language, well enough to accomplish something, rather quickly.

djsfantasi said:

I'm not good at a second natural language, but quite fluent in English (writing). And pick up a new coding language, well enough to accomplish something, rather quickly.

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Hi djs,
Yes the skills for acquiring a second traditional language are almost 180 deg different from the skills needed to learn a programming language. The first tends to be illogical and arty and the second is logical in the extreme. The only thing they have in common is the word language.
spec

spec said:

strantor,

I can't possibly know, but strongly suspect that you are substantially wrong with the negative views about yourself. Your character, as deduced from your presence on ETO, is at odds with what you say.
...
I have dealt with many people and the sort of thing you say is not rare, but in the majority of cases the 'problems' have been sorted, pretty much by a more positive outlook, satisfactory environment and confidence gained from positive experiences.

And why do people form negative views about themselves- the normal trigger is some unhappy experience/situation from the past, often from childhood. This is not aimed at you, but these negative views are a kind of laziness: I can't do this because of so and so and I cant do that because because of another shortcoming. And these things feed on themselves. Why do I think this, because that is what I do.

spec

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spec said:

Hell, that is an interesting description stranator. It almost fits the mould perfectly- if you don't mind me saying so. This may sound presumptuous, but you are lucky; it seems that there is nothing organic that is causing any kind of problem. I just don't think you have met the right people, and are possibly not happy with your environment. In general, you have not found your place in the world yet. Hate to keep repeating this, but I was exactly the same and have dealt with others the same too.

spec

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I think that the proportions in which I have discussed my strengths and shortcomings in this thread has led to a conclusion of low self esteem and unhappiness. Perhaps you're correct in your analysis; perhaps it goes back to "you don't know what you don't know," and I am in fact unhappy and I have a low self esteem, but am unaware of these facts because I've never been anything else. But I don't think so. I feel mostly happy, and on the whole I think I'm pretty awesome. I haven't gone on about my strengths much in this thread because, well, they're strengths, and I don't need any help sorting them out. So this has mostly been about my shortcomings, namely the emotional thing - that's at the front of my mind lately because it's causing problems in my marriage. So I'm trying to sort it out. To understand how to "fix" it I must understand exactly what the problem is. I was hoping to find out if it's common among us "engineering types" (that seems intuitive - that the logical/analytical type would be more detached from abstract concepts like emotion) or if it might be a real problem that I should seek professional help with.

I have a hunch that this is going to drag the thread down and away from it's goal, so I'm going to leave it alone for now, unless someone else brings it up again.

Dr_Doggy said:

it will be interesting to see results chart!

Code:

(01) Some sleep problems, especially when a particular job is not going well: YES -- waking up is problem
(02) Worrier: No
(03) Hay-fever and general allergies. Alopecia. Digestive problems: Yes
(04) Migraine: NO
(06) Dyslexic: YES
(07) Difficult spelling: NO - gots spell check
(08) Uneasy punctuation and grammar: Yes -- I have bad both
(10) Pedantic or perhaps particular is a better word: NO -- only if i need to
(11) Think that females are generally logical and that all males are logical: NO - females make no sense (lol)
(12) Hoarder: No - depends who you ask
(13) Fond of animals, especially cats: NOOOO, but yes animals
(14) Inquisitive: YEs
(15) Industrious: NO
(16) Inventive: Yes
(17) Independent: Yes
(18) Self motivated: YES -- when self bribery is induced
(19) Strong sense of humor: YES
(20) Have electronics bench/workshop at home: YES
(21.1) Quiet: NO -- sometimes
(21.2) Considered to be different: YES
(22) Limited emotion: N
(23) Strong willed: No
(24) Imaginative: YES!!!!
(26) Bitter about being overlooked/ falsely wronged by management: NO -- dont care as long as they pay up
(27) Great satisfaction from creating something: YES
(28) Enjoy own company: NO - soon i hope
(29) Difficult English (or your natural language) composition: NO - Slang comes easy
(30) Physically active, sporty: (2016_02_21 New item. Thanks granddad)  NO -
(31) Analytical (2016_02_21 New addition: Thanks Little Ghostman) YES
(32) Difficulty dealing with illogical people: (2016_02_21 Added) NO
(33) Heredity- does engineering run in your family lines: (2016_02_21 Added. Thanks strantor) NO

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Could you add your answers to the original list please? I only have the one copy for now.

Languages.
I learned French at school, I would no say that I was particularly good at it from an academic point of view, but most of it stuck in my head.
In my working life I have worked with many French people so I learned a bit more of the language. This has been useful both for business and pleasure.
Holidays in France, they don't all speak English especially in the more out of the way country places.
Business trips to France and Tunisia where I had to communicate with people with no English.

German, for some reason this little voice in my head said that I should learn German. I could have been that in the 1960s Radio Luxemburg switched from English to German at midnight (from bad memory) and it would have been nice to know what they were saying.
The big break came at college where I had to opportunity of an hour or so of German lessons each week for 6 months.
Many years later a BBC TV "How to speak German" programme, prior to a two week holiday in Germany added a fair bit more vocabulary.
I like to go to Germany on holiday and will probably be going there again this year.

Spanish. The opportunity of a weeks holiday in early December one year prompted me to buy a cassette tape (anybody remember them?) of how to speak Spanish. Listening to that in the car on the way to and from work for a couple of weeks before the trip was very useful. Also when in Spain, taking note of what the locals are saying helps a lot.
The last time I was in Spain was on business, to present a training course. Some of the guys on the course did not speak English, so a few words of Spanish from me were useful from time to time.

For a couple of business trips to Italy I did the cassette tape thing again, which was useful. But I think that I can say that I very quickly forgot it all again.

Norwegian. Again I have made several biz trips to Norway and picked up a few words. I can read a little bit and understand some simple spoken words, but I do not speak it at all! When I tried, they just laughed a me, oh well!

Looks like I am a bit of an odd one out here as a native English speaker who can speak other languages.

JimB

JimB said:

Languages. ...Looks like I am a bit of an odd one out here as a native English speaker who can speak other languages... JimB

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Exceptional, not odd.

Q: What do you call an American?
A: Mono-Lingual
I would like to learn Chinese, I spent 3 months in TianJin China back around 1995, I tried very hard to learn some of the language but it was a very hard language to learn.

Has anyone done or know someone who has done Rosetta Stone? I been tempted to try it.

Mikebits said:

Q: What do you call an American?
A: Mono-Lingual
I would like to learn Chinese, I spent 3 months in TianJin China back around 1995, I tried very hard to learn some of the language but it was a very hard language to learn.

Has anyone done or know someone who has done Rosetta Stone? I been tempted to try it.

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Chinese is one of the more difficult with Rosetta Stone. Others are easier.

There are so many intonations / emphasis changes for the same word in Chinese. I think they can say "MA" six different ways.

gophert said:

Chinese is one of the more difficult with Rosetta Stone. Others are easier.

There are so many intonations / emphasis changes for the same word in Chinese. I think they can say "MA" six different ways.

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Same for Arabic. I tried learning Arabic with Rosetta Stone and didn't get anywhere. I talked to spook who was riding our boat; he was an Arabic linguist listening in on ...... and he told me that there's least a dozen ways to say any given word and he wasn't sure how Rosetta Stone would convey that. He gave me a textbook. I spent about 30min skimming it and gave it back. Went back to Rosetta Stone, but for Spanish. It was pretty good for Spanish.

gophert said:

Chinese is one of the more difficult with Rosetta Stone. Others are easier.

There are so many intonations / emphasis changes for the same word in Chinese. I think they can say "MA" six different ways.

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Exactly, and that is what I had trouble with. The intonation can mean the difference between a compliment and a insult. Considering China's emerging place in the world, learning the language would be a great benefit in the industry and business. Since I live on the border of Mexico, I probably be better off learning Spanish, but I just have too much on my plate.

Little Ghostman said:

If memory is so great why do so many people drink to forget?

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cowboybob said:

They forget that it doesn't work .

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The trouble is, you forget what it was you were trying to forget, then wish you could remember. Duh.